Live data from Hacker News

Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

tofugu.com

101–110 of 210 posts

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#101
I haven't read the book referred to in the article but I've for example read Mishima's Runway Horses - which also draws on historical circumstance from the Shinpūren Rebellion (1876). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinp%C5%ABren_Rebellion

Does that not exemplify similar values as us (Westerners) expect from the term 'Bushido'? Was the former a very rare isolated incident and not actually representative of samurai ethos?

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#102
post #95
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Japanese war crimes really worse than the European standards in pre modern times? From my Swedish history, see the 30 year war (for a viewpoint not covered well in Swedish schools, google Polish deluge). To me it seems the main difference is that Sweden didn't have the same technological resources a few centuries earlier... Edit: The obvious point is -- does present Swedish culture explain why historical atrociti…

> Was Japanese war crimes really worse than the European standards in pre modern times? Or the bombing of 250.000 civilians in Hiroshima and Nagashaki to make a point for the post-war era?

> to make a point for the post-war era?

AFAIK, American WW2 leaders saw it as a choice between invading and dropping nukes. Is there evidence to suggest otherwise?

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#103
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Was Japanese war crimes really worse than the European standards in pre modern times? Or the bombing of 250.000 civilians in Hiroshima and Nagashaki to make a point for the post-war era?

> to make a point for the post-war era? AFAIK, American WW2 leaders saw it as a choice between invading and dropping nukes. Is there evidence to suggest otherwise?

Same can be said of any decision.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#104
post #4

Related but at a tangent - after a lifetime of interest in karate I came to realise that most of the stuff taught at karate is not practical. Katas and karate punches and kicks - most of this better thought of more as dancing or ceremonial. A bit like Tai Chi - except that Tai Chi claims no real world martial value. The myth remains however of karate being great self defence training. Our local karate club is packed…

I like watching MMA because it pits all the various styles against eachother with a minimum set of rules. This way, it becomes very apparent which styles work and which don't.

Predictably, more practical and direct styles like boxing and grappling form the bread and butter for most participants and make up the majority of fights. But interestingly, very high-level practitioners of traditional styles, such as karate and taekwondo, are actually extremely effective, and among some of the best fighters in the sport.

I suspect a lot of the fake and impractical looking techniques in e.g. karate are actually useful, but only when practicing at a very high level. I also suspect that this may be by design - to weed out thugs and impatient pupils from the ranks before teaching actually useful martial technique.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#105

I haven't read the book referred to in the article but I've for example read Mishima's Runway Horses - which also draws on historical circumstance from the Shinpūren Rebellion (1876). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinp%C5%ABren_Rebellion Does that not exemplify similar values as us (Westerners) expect from the term 'Bushido'? Was the former a very rare isolated incident and not actually representative of samurai e…

Mishima was as influenced by ultranationalism and the bushido mythos as anyone - to the point that he committed suicide during an attempt to restore the emperor. I don't think his writing counts as counterexample.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#106
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possible counter-examples to this are Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson [0] and Lyoto Machida [1]. There are probably more, but these are examples of two very successful MMA fighters whose backgrounds are based on Karate and whose MMA fighting styles are apparently very Karate-like so it can't be completely useless. (Disclaimer: I am a complete layman.) Also, for those advocating Aikido: how many Aikido guys excel in MMA?…

MMA isn't fighting, it's a sport. The one interesting thing to come out of it from a martial arts perspective, was Gracie challenging the idea that grappling wasn't an effective strategy even against people with a lot of striking experience. But it has rules, it's one-on-one, no weapons ... it has very little to do with real-world fighting. That said, someone that's been boxing for a few years is more likely to win a…

Many real fights are one on one without weapons. I think MMA synthesizes such a fight relatively well, with the exception of usually cluttered or cramped environments and wearing real clothes.

As for situations with several opponents, possibly with weapons, I don't think there is a style that will save you here except the old run-fu.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#107
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone knowledgeable about Japanese culture explain why those war crimes were so common?

Sure! Japanese people are human and the base morality that evolution has endowed us with. This divides humanity into two groups, in group and out group. Morality only applies to the in group. It takes a lot of acculturation and education to expand an individual's conception of the in group is, from family/tribe to nation/culture to humanity. As such, any sub-culture that can take over the public sphere of a culture w…

Thanks for the explanation. The book looks quite interesting.

But that still doesn't explain why the armies of Western nations seemingly committed less and less serious atrocities. Or is that just an illusion because "history is written by the victors"?

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#108
post #106
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MMA isn't fighting, it's a sport. The one interesting thing to come out of it from a martial arts perspective, was Gracie challenging the idea that grappling wasn't an effective strategy even against people with a lot of striking experience. But it has rules, it's one-on-one, no weapons ... it has very little to do with real-world fighting. That said, someone that's been boxing for a few years is more likely to win a…

Many real fights are one on one without weapons. I think MMA synthesizes such a fight relatively well, with the exception of usually cluttered or cramped environments and wearing real clothes. As for situations with several opponents, possibly with weapons, I don't think there is a style that will save you here except the old run-fu.

Most "real fights" that are "one on one without weapons" can be avoided. Fighting for pride, or fun, isn't self-defence. [ed: Not to mention the fact that a "cluttered environment" is an environment rich in weapons. Be that bottles, knifes, fire axes, bar stools, bricks or metal pipes etc.]

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#109
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to make a point for the post-war era? AFAIK, American WW2 leaders saw it as a choice between invading and dropping nukes. Is there evidence to suggest otherwise?

Same can be said of any decision.

ELI5 how the decision making behind letting the Rape of Nanking happen relates to the decision to drop the bomb.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#110
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to make a point for the post-war era? AFAIK, American WW2 leaders saw it as a choice between invading and dropping nukes. Is there evidence to suggest otherwise?

Same can be said of any decision.

Then please explain the rational calculations for e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

(This atrocity was part of an invasion, not a total war with an enemy that didn't follow the laws of war.)

Edit: The brother comment referenced the same example while I was off for a coffee and to find a wikipedia link. :-)

Post reply on HN