Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

geektime.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 149 posts

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#81

Post by nabla9 »

harryf wrote: post #31
nabla9 wrote: post #19

In the meantime while Nordics are home to just 3% of Europe’s population, it has created more than 50% of Europe’s Billion Dollar exits since 2005. If there is startup capital in Europe, it's Stockholm. https://medium.com/creandum-family/the-nordics-in-context-th...

Part of that is mobile games companies like Supercell with Clash of the Clans - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercell_(video_game_company) ... Hay Day, Angry Birds and others. Basically out of the ashes of Nokia, a bunch of mobile gaming companies has sprung up and to some extent are dominating the industry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_game_companies_... - more at https://techcrunch.com/2016/02/10…

King (Candy Crush), Mojang (Minecraft), Rovio (Angry Birds), CCP Games (Eve online), Supercell (Clash of Clans), Unity (game engine) ...

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#82

Post by corford »

I think Berlin will benefit from brexit but I'm more interested in watching Dublin. Seems to me it should do very well: big tech companies already there, attractive corp tax rates, cheap and easy to incorporate a company (AFAIK?), similar legal concepts and biz regs as the UK, similar banking environment, cheaper rents, everyone speaks english, there are local VCs and presumably London VCs would also find it very easy/familiar to invest.

The one thing the UK still has going for it is SEIS/EIS but there's nothing preventing other countries copying this (e.g. Portugal is about to introduce something similar to SEIS).

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#83

Post by huac »

TorKlingberg wrote: post #55
nabla9 wrote: post #19

In the meantime while Nordics are home to just 3% of Europe’s population, it has created more than 50% of Europe’s Billion Dollar exits since 2005. If there is startup capital in Europe, it's Stockholm. https://medium.com/creandum-family/the-nordics-in-context-th...

It is very common for Swedish startups to incorporate in the UK, even if you keep the office in Sweden. It is easier and cheaper to incorporate there, and you get better access to London VCs. I wonder if that will get more difficult.

Were London VC's unable to invest in Swedish-incorporated startups before?

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#84

Post by huac »

auganov wrote: post #65

Europe never had a proper startup capital, or more accurately never did well at startups in general. It's not unlikely that there will just be less investment, nobody has to win. Given the very small numbers, every European country [1] has a lot of potential to multiply their startup output. I doubt any trade deals or policy changes are going to bring it about. Not happening without major cultural change IMO. One mig…

I kinda agree with a 'cultural' factor - Europeans are often more risk-averse than Americans or Israeli's, and starting a startup is definitely risky!

I'm not sure how the Nordic countries get around that though. A stronger social safety net is probably negatively correlated with risk-aversion.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#85

Post by bogomipz »

nabla9 wrote: post #19

In the meantime while Nordics are home to just 3% of Europe’s population, it has created more than 50% of Europe’s Billion Dollar exits since 2005. If there is startup capital in Europe, it's Stockholm. https://medium.com/creandum-family/the-nordics-in-context-th...

Really? So were all of these companies funded by VCs that are based in Stockholm? Or were they funded by VCs in the US and the UK?

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#86

Post by AndreyErmakov »

yardie wrote: post #73
p4wnc6 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are lower wages good for the employees you're trying to attract? While some aspects of cost of living are low, others are not low at all. I guess if you're looking for nothing more than a temporary lifestyle involving enough money to go to concerts and eat at restaurants, the wage is fine for a younger person in Berlin. But it's a fantasy to believe you can effectively grow a company that way. You really…

I made 50k in a more expensive city, Paris. From that my partner and I were able to buy a flat, put our son into a catholic school, travel (squeezyjets €20 flights), dine out, and save a little. This would not be possible anywhere in the US including SF. Child rearing costs are punitively high in the US. Medical was less than 10% of my salary. If my calculation is right the typical 2BR apartment in SF is $5000/month.…

>> I made 50k in a more expensive city, Paris. From that my partner and I were able to buy a flat, put our son into a catholic school

Having a partner doubles your income. More, if French taxation works in any way similarly to the German system, then an official relationship puts you in a different taxation category. Having children moves you into yet another category where your net income noticeably improves. You're probably making an equivalent of 100K for a single person without realizing it.

>> And yet these startups, everywhere, are able to do exactly that. They use equity as a carrot to lure experienced people from a sure thing all the time.

Not really. Everywhere where I've been I've only seen kids writing code. Anybody who is senior has always been an independent contractor, and it's usually them who actually advance the work by leaps and bounds. But those, today you have them working for you, tomorrow they're elsewhere. And with the young and inexperienced, you won't accomplish much.

Also, experienced people with families usually ignore any talks about equity and start the initial offer analysis with a calculator in their hands. I'm yet to encounter a true senior specialist with family obligations that takes equity over hard currency.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#87

Post by iopuy »

speeder wrote: post #51
harryf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of that is mobile games companies like Supercell with Clash of the Clans - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercell_(video_game_company) ... Hay Day, Angry Birds and others. Basically out of the ashes of Nokia, a bunch of mobile gaming companies has sprung up and to some extent are dominating the industry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_game_companies_... - more at https://techcrunch.com/2016/02/10…

It is not just a nokia thing. Also from Nordic countries: 1. Linux 2. Irc 3. Demoscene 4. DICE

5. Git

Jumping on the bandwagon

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#88

Post by cm3 »

As a developer I'd wish companies would treat Europe more like United States of Europe and generally accept remote positions in order to have a broader pool of talent and allow employees to economically make the most out of their salary.

I don't want startup capitals, I want an adjustment of mindsets that goes with the rest of the tech advancements.

I've had interviews for already internationally distributed teams where the HR manager insisted on having me full-time onsite without a good argument.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#89

Post by cylinder »

corford wrote: post #82

I think Berlin will benefit from brexit but I'm more interested in watching Dublin. Seems to me it should do very well: big tech companies already there, attractive corp tax rates, cheap and easy to incorporate a company (AFAIK?), similar legal concepts and biz regs as the UK, similar banking environment, cheaper rents, everyone speaks english, there are local VCs and presumably London VCs would also find it very eas…

Dublin will be corporate/enterprise IT and Berlin will be more consumer.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#90

Post by cyphunk »

huac wrote: post #84
auganov wrote: post #65

Europe never had a proper startup capital, or more accurately never did well at startups in general. It's not unlikely that there will just be less investment, nobody has to win. Given the very small numbers, every European country [1] has a lot of potential to multiply their startup output. I doubt any trade deals or policy changes are going to bring it about. Not happening without major cultural change IMO. One mig…

I kinda agree with a 'cultural' factor - Europeans are often more risk-averse than Americans or Israeli's, and starting a startup is definitely risky! I'm not sure how the Nordic countries get around that though. A stronger social safety net is probably negatively correlated with risk-aversion.

I'll second that. I lived in both the US and Israel, eventually settling in the EU precisely because the culture here is much less risk-friendly. People value security more than potential in much of middle EU.
Post reply on HN