Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

extremetech.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 451 posts

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#91

Post by 794CD01 »

FussyZeus wrote: post #85
SixSigma wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be upset if Windows 10 hadn't turned into a telemetry botnet for Microsoft. Edit: I see in other posts accusations of paranoia. But how can I not be paranoid when I cannot determine what is being transmitted.

^ This. It's not THAT there is telemetry and "phoning home," it's the fact that Microsoft flat out REFUSES to be up front about what it's sending home, how they're anonymizing it, and why these things can't be 100% disabled. If you say nothing then your users will (and should) assume the worst.

Where have they refused to be up front about any of this? As far as I'm aware, they have detailed all of those things except how exactly they anonymize the data, which I haven't seen anyone specifically ask them about.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#92

Post by Bartweiss »

givinguflac wrote: post #49
themartorana wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm with you 100% on having the explicit opportunity to opt out of updates like this. That said, a large swath of Windows users are not nearly as technically literate as you and your mother are, and automatically helping people forward (if for nothing else, security fixes and ongoing support) is a Good Thing in my book (so long as it's free, and it is). There is no doubt there are co…

Support it if you want, but you seriously think it's OK for the PC to restart in the middle of a call? What if the user is doing something mission critical; it's acceptable to just wait an hour (or more likely several) to get back to work because "MS knows best"?? There is nothing to stop it from just doing it all over again either. I will never use Windows again because of this behavior.

My biggest aggravation with Windows is the pattern of unapproved restarts.

Sure, there's usually a setting to disable it, and a popup to delay it, but it's not really enough. The setting appears unreliable at best, and the popup is useless when it pops under fullscreen programs.

It really only takes one ill-timed restart to damn an OS forever, especially when the restart is chased by lengthy (and impossible to decline) downtime while a patch or upgrade is installed. Restarting on someone during a Skype interview or business call is shockingly unacceptable, no matter how sensible the average case.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#93

Post by pdx »

wvenable wrote: post #58
givinguflac wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Support it if you want, but you seriously think it's OK for the PC to restart in the middle of a call? What if the user is doing something mission critical; it's acceptable to just wait an hour (or more likely several) to get back to work because "MS knows best"?? There is nothing to stop it from just doing it all over again either. I will never use Windows again because of this behavior.

I just did the Windows 10 upgrade on my laptop and at no point could I start the upgrade without explicitly clicking a button. In addition, the process starts by immediately rebooting (after downloading via Windows update and asking you to start it).

That's a really interesting story. Let me tell you another one. Both my wife's and my son's computers updated automatically, with no button presses on their parts, even after them pressing "do not update" on all the nag screens for the past several months.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#94

Post by 794CD01 »

overgard wrote: post #86

This is probably a dangerous position as a software developer, but I think we should stop calling these things upgrades . What's being shipped are changes . Whether they're improvements or not is completely subjective. It seems like splitting hairs, but terminology matters. It sounds harmless when you say "Microsoft reserves the right to update your machine" but things are clearer when you say "Microsoft reserves the…

By that logic, there is no such thing as an upgrade. https://xkcd.com/1172/

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#95

Post by PKop »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #53
themartorana wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm with you 100% on having the explicit opportunity to opt out of updates like this. That said, a large swath of Windows users are not nearly as technically literate as you and your mother are, and automatically helping people forward (if for nothing else, security fixes and ongoing support) is a Good Thing in my book (so long as it's free, and it is). There is no doubt there are co…

Those technically illiterate users are going to have trouble with Windows 10. My stepfather is in his 70s, and I had to help him set up the weather app - and it took me about ten minutes how to figure out how to set a default location! 10 is different enough from 7 that they're going to have to learn a lot of new habits - and while that's just the nature of modern life, some people are going to suffer significantly m…

Have you tried ChromeOS? My grandfather is in his mid 80's. I've been helping him with his computer(s) for years. In the last year, I switched him over to a Chromebook, after trying and failing to switch him to Windows 10 (wasn't compatible with his old computer)... and since everything he does involves websites and bookmarks anyways.

It's the easiest time he's ever had using a computer. No random update notifications, adware popups, anti-virus subscription nags, etc. Nothing but a browser, which he knows how to use.

I'd recommend it to anyone considered technically illiterate.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#96

Post by mikeash »

themartorana wrote: post #42
Guest98123 wrote: post #19

A few days ago I was visiting family, and my Mom was online Skyping relatives on her Windows 7 PC. She comes running into the other room and says her PC just restarted while she was talking, and now it says something about configuring Windows 10, even though she was always careful to opt-out of the constant requests to upgrade. So, we had to wait for it to install the OS, then decline the terms of service, then wait…

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm with you 100% on having the explicit opportunity to opt out of updates like this. That said, a large swath of Windows users are not nearly as technically literate as you and your mother are, and automatically helping people forward (if for nothing else, security fixes and ongoing support) is a Good Thing in my book (so long as it's free, and it is). There is no doubt there are co…

Apple manages to get rapid uptake of their new OSes without resorting to these shenanigans. But apparently making an OS that people want to upgrade was too difficult for Microsoft.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#97

Post by snerbles »

givinguflac wrote: post #49
themartorana wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm with you 100% on having the explicit opportunity to opt out of updates like this. That said, a large swath of Windows users are not nearly as technically literate as you and your mother are, and automatically helping people forward (if for nothing else, security fixes and ongoing support) is a Good Thing in my book (so long as it's free, and it is). There is no doubt there are co…

Support it if you want, but you seriously think it's OK for the PC to restart in the middle of a call? What if the user is doing something mission critical; it's acceptable to just wait an hour (or more likely several) to get back to work because "MS knows best"?? There is nothing to stop it from just doing it all over again either. I will never use Windows again because of this behavior.

It was either not fully thought out, or Microsoft's analysis figured that it would cost less to do it this way.

Anecdote: When I worked dispatch, the local Network Operations Center pushed out an update that forcibly rebooted all of our Windows workstations...including the machine that ran inbound emergency calls. The admins at the NOC didn't think that anyone would dial 911 at three in the morning. No malfeasance, but a simple lack of foresight.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#98

Post by turnip1979 »

Guest98123 wrote: post #19

A few days ago I was visiting family, and my Mom was online Skyping relatives on her Windows 7 PC. She comes running into the other room and says her PC just restarted while she was talking, and now it says something about configuring Windows 10, even though she was always careful to opt-out of the constant requests to upgrade. So, we had to wait for it to install the OS, then decline the terms of service, then wait…

Something very similar happened to me + my old father (not tech savy). My parents have carefully written down steps on how to accomplish various functions (seems very unnatural to me but that is the only way they get things done on PCs).

I went to his place yesterday and as part of the usual tech support, he said he couldn't open his email and was confused why. Turns out, his machine had upgraded to Windows 10. What was horrible was that Windows decided to be in tablet-only mode (completely unfamiliar to me since I left Windows after Win7.. the Metro UI sucks when forced on non-tablet users). His printer/scanner all went kaput. It really made the entire day crummy. I say shame on you Microsoft. I've got my father an iPad but it isn't a PC replacement. He refuses MacOs because of the stupid touchpad. It is sad.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#99

Post by lfowles »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #77
jerf wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to update my wife's lil' tabletish Acer netbooky thing, because while I don't like the pushiness I did like Windows 10. And it's been pestering us with little popups for weeks at that point. I go to update it, and it says, Sorry, Windows is 64-bit only. This is when I discover the machine that I purchased only about 2 years ago now was actually 32-bit. Didn't even know they were still making them at that time…

Huh? I upgraded a 32-bit version of Win10 without any problem. So they exist. Maybe not for every platform?

I was unable to upgrade my wife's old 32bit computer, but I think it was some other bit of CPU capability that was the stopper.

Edit: It was NX bit support.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#100

Post by cm2187 »

What I find surprising is that I see tech journalists reporting the issues, I see people complaining about these forced upgrades and the privacy invasion in windows 10 on forums or around me, but I do not see the press confronting Microsoft on any of this.

Has anyone seen any interview where Nadella is pressed with questions on why they think it's OK to treat customer this way? All the interviews I have seen of Microsoft executives have been by docile journalists who prefer to keep their good relationship with the company than ask tough questions.

Post reply on HN