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Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#231

Post by MagnumOpus »

dazc wrote: post #192
mickronome wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cursory looked up some ethnographic statistics the other day, and if wikipedia is to be trusted, UK as a whole certainly does not appear to be very ethnically diverse - although London is.

Good for you. Can wikipedia tell you what other countries fair better?

A simple google search might have informed you. Indeed there is a Wikipedia page on multiple ways of measuring it.

At least 100 countries are more diverse, ethnically, linguistically, racially, you name it. Germany is among them, so is the US. France is about the same level of diversity. A majority of EU countries are more of a melting pot than the UK, in fact.

The UK is 87% white, 95% English speaking, 92% Christian/atheist/agnostic. It doesn't get much less diverse than that.

And of course the places that aren't homogenous (inner London for instance), all voted "remain" by a huge margin.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#232

Post by vmateixeira »

_Understated_ wrote: post #213
vmateixeira wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU still has UK representatives...nominated by the ones you democratically elected.. But I get your point. Unfortunately the most discussed argument is to have sovereignty over who can come into the country and who cannot. That is racism to me.

It's the argument that was put at the front of the queue during the build-up to the referendum itself and makes for very polarizing headlines but it played almost no part in my decision. I wanted sovereignty over everything: Border control is just one part of the whole argument. > Unfortunately the most discussed argument is to have sovereignty over who can come into the country and who cannot. That is racism to me.…

> It's the argument that was put at the front of the queue during the build-up to the referendum itself and makes for very polarizing headlines

Agreed.

> How can you say that it's ok to let anyone in but by saying we need checks and balances is racism?

Discrimination and racism sound like the same to me. I read people saying they would like to choose based on peoples skills, which is a complete nonsense. Why not let the market decide? People would be able to come in as they like, if they wouldn't get a job nor benefits, I'm sure they would go away. Otherwise, it would mean they have a place in here. Wouldn't that be a wiser decision?

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#233

Post by MagnumOpus »

_Understated_ wrote: post #187
ck425 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, why?

I wanted out of the EU to have control of the future of our country in the hands of the people we elected... I have no control over the elites in Europe. That was the primary (possibly only!) factor in my decision.

Do you have control over the elites in Westminster? Be realistic, we can obviously not influence who gets to be the next head of state, nor who gets placed into the Tory/Labour safe seats by the inner parties, nor who gets chosen by those people to run the civil service and our lives.

Even if you think that you have influence over who your SNP MP is - he/she won't ever be in the UK government, they will never have a say on anything, resigned to jeer from the opposition backbenches. It is the epitome of disenfranchisement.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#234

Post by DanBC »

Chris2048 wrote: post #229
DanBC wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accusations of xenophobia are hard to avoid when the anti-immigration debate has been led by the National Front ("Go home pakis"); the BNP (Nazi salutes); Britain First (an incoherent but unequivocally fascist ideology). We've already seen a rise in xenophobic, racist, hate crime. To use UKIPs line, why aren't moderate anti-immigrationists condemning this violence?

Those groups are always going to support immigration controls - what has that got to do with anyone else? > We've already seen a rise in xenophobic, racist, hate crime. Have we?

> Have we?

Yes. We need to National Crime Survey to be certain, but police forces are already reporting an increase in reported incidents, and affected groups are reporting an increase in incidents.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#235

Post by dazc »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #231
dazc wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for you. Can wikipedia tell you what other countries fair better?

A simple google search might have informed you. Indeed there is a Wikipedia page on multiple ways of measuring it. At least 100 countries are more diverse, ethnically, linguistically, racially, you name it. Germany is among them, so is the US. France is about the same level of diversity. A majority of EU countries are more of a melting pot than the UK, in fact. The UK is 87% white, 95% English speaking, 92% Christian…

Thanks for the information. As you can probably guess I wasn't that motivated to find it for myself since I was fairly confident in my original assertion.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#236

Post by Chris2048 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #201
Nursie wrote: post #21

There's a lot of clutching at straws going on at the moment. People coming out with political or legal theories, trying to interpret David Cameron's failure to immediately declare leaving under article 50 as kicking the whole issue into the long grass etc etc. This is the latest, like others it's more of an exercise in denial than it is in reality. Many of these things could come to pass, it's true, but each one carr…

Boris Johnson stated this morning that he didn't think immigration anxiety was why people voted for Brexit. This may well come as a surprise to many Brexit voters. It certainly sets out his stall for what he hopes to achieve, presumably he'll happily sign up for mass immigration as long as the finance industry gets opt-outs from EU fraud investigations or whatever his backers want to get out of this. Re-invigorating…

> may well come as a surprise to many Brexit voters

Not to me - the opaque processes of unelected EU officials was the main reason.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#237

Post by saiya-jin »

dazc wrote: post #192
mickronome wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cursory looked up some ethnographic statistics the other day, and if wikipedia is to be trusted, UK as a whole certainly does not appear to be very ethnically diverse - although London is.

Good for you. Can wikipedia tell you what other countries fair better?

switzerland

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#238

Post by teh_klev »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #226
throwaway049 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody ever offered a say on UK national issues to EU nationals resident here. They cannot vote in elections to the UK parliament.[0] There have been a number of EU nationals quoted in the media as being aggrieved by this, but in many cases they have lived here more than long enough to become citizens and not chosen to do so. [0] http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/faq/voting-and-registr...

Interesting to note that the Scottish Indepndence referendum was open to non-Scots living in the country, and it tipped the balance below 50%, but if set up in the same way as the EU vote, they'd have met have had a majority.

> and it tipped the balance below 50%

I'd need a citation for that being the reason; anecdotal I know, but I have several non-Scottish/British pals who all voted Yes for independence.

It's generally accepted that the reason that Yes lost was that we had the full might of the British state propaganda machine putting the fear of god into people, i.e. British Government, BBC and practically every newspaper (the exception being the Sunday Herald). It was called "Project Fear" [0, 1]

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Fear_(British_politics...

1: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/178590051X

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#239

Post by vmateixeira »

rlpb wrote: post #224
vmateixeira wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the independent but it seems to disagree with you.. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-refe...

I'm just critically interpreting the facts as presented in articles you linked, which as I pointed out do not support your claim. At least your newest citation allows readers to judge for themselves. I think it's a stretch to claim that it was a campaign promise [from Farage], but that's up to you to decide. I voted Remain, BTW, and don't support UKIP. But I'm not prepared to grab pitchforks on a tenuous claim of hyp…

I see what you mean, and I can see how it can be a stretch to blame Farage (although I don't believe Boris will keep that promise either). Farage took the risk by promoting himself towards the same goal and is paying for that.

The problem is that many people voted based on that and many other lies and are feeling betrayed. Now the guilt will vanish as usual... will be no one's fault.. but somehow someone will be able to fulfil their agenda.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#240

Post by teh_klev »

pjc50 wrote: post #211
Nursie wrote: post #21

There's a lot of clutching at straws going on at the moment. People coming out with political or legal theories, trying to interpret David Cameron's failure to immediately declare leaving under article 50 as kicking the whole issue into the long grass etc etc. This is the latest, like others it's more of an exercise in denial than it is in reality. Many of these things could come to pass, it's true, but each one carr…

we can expect politics in the UK to become dangerously divided and unsettled Other way round. UK politics was already divided and unsettled, it's just that an illusion of stability and consensus has been pasted on the front. The cardboard facade has collapsed when asked to bear weight - just look at the leadership chaos! This referendum and its result is really a result of dozens of problems which have been pushed un…

I think this is the thread you want:

https://twitter.com/shockproofbeats/status/74736207057689804...

You need to keep clicking "Show more" to reveal all 32 tweets in that series.

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