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Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

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Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#71

Post by akiselev »

driverdan wrote: post #57
jimmywanger wrote: post #17

I think that one factor is that in the Chinese culture, you don't expect everything to be good and available during all seasons. At a Whole Foods, you can reasonably be assured of asparagus in the winter time. In Chinatown, things are only available when they're in season, like a farmers' market. Also, if you've ever ordered at a Chinese restaurant with a Chinese family, you'll see this phenomenon. Instead of orderin…

> At a Whole Foods... I'm curious why did you compare to Whole Foods? They are far more expensive than a regular grocery store and their food is not better.

Have you shopped at Whole Foods or Bristol Farms for seasonal products? Compared to the major grocery store chains their produce is leaps and bounds better. I don't believe in the organic marketing crap but their food, especially when it comes to fruit, is amazing, unlike anything you can find at Kroger, Publix, or Safeway.

Cherries, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, peaches, pears, apples, tomatoes, and countless of other produce taste much better than anything I can get at a normal grocery. Hell, I have very fond memories of eating fresh food from my grandparents dacha or picking wild berries in the forest behind my school and the high end grocers are the only place where they taste even remotely as good as what I had in Russia. Russia.

You get what you are willing to pay for, especially when it costs two to three times the lower end.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#72

Post by tacostakohashi »

I can't help but think that this article, and other comments, gloss over some major, obvious factors:

1) More than anything else - high volumes, low margins, and intense competition. People travel to Chinatown from all over NYC to buy at those prices. When they do, they're often making a long trip (in many cases, over an hour), and so they buy in much higher quantities than they would at a local grocer or supermarket. Conversely, people who just get their groceries at a local shop aren't fools, they're saving considerable time by not having to go to Chinatown.

2) Low labor costs. Most retailers are, small-scale immigrant businesses. In many cases, it would be a family operation, where children feel obligated to help their parents, or the workers are immigrants that speak little or no English (beyond that required for selling produce), are possibly undocumented, possibly are paid cash-in-hand without being taxed, and for one reason or don't have many employment opportunities outside of Chinatown. Compared with an outfit like D'Agostino, Gristedes (both of which use unionized staff), or Whole Foods, they're going to be paying a lot less for their staff in Chinatown.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#73

Post by maxerickson »

honkhonkpants wrote: post #69
jimmywanger wrote: post #17

I think that one factor is that in the Chinese culture, you don't expect everything to be good and available during all seasons. At a Whole Foods, you can reasonably be assured of asparagus in the winter time. In Chinatown, things are only available when they're in season, like a farmers' market. Also, if you've ever ordered at a Chinese restaurant with a Chinese family, you'll see this phenomenon. Instead of orderin…

Asparagus is harvested in the winter!

In Michigan it emerges in May or so, which is the middle of spring.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#74

Post by xorcist »

venomsnake wrote: post #35
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #6

Growing up, I remember Marina Foods in Cupertino being much fresher than the other grocers. > Chinatown’s green grocers, in contrast, buy their stock from a handful of small wholesalers operating from tiny warehouses right in the neighborhood Chipotle tried hyper-localised procurement and processing. That backfired, since heterogeneity in sourcing and processing means heterogeneity in quality control. How do these ma…

Lets start with the obvious - a modern food is disgustingly safe compared to what a human immune system is capable of handling. No matter what Madison Avenue has tried to convince the US public - a single or couple of bacteria won't kill you. And if you mean prepared Chinese food - have you seen the burners under the woks - they look, sound and consume fuel at comparable rate to a jet engine. It is very intense style…

> couple of bacteria won't kill you

That's naive.

Enjoy your chicken sashimi.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#75

Post by akiselev »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #67
driverdan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At a Whole Foods... I'm curious why did you compare to Whole Foods? They are far more expensive than a regular grocery store and their food is not better.

I hear people say that, but I keep seeing things that are cheaper at Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. Identical products, like Endangered Species brand 88% dark chocolate and Racer 5 IPA beer are cheaper at my local Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. $3.29 vs $3.99 and $4.99 vs $5.99, respectively. Their produce and meat may be more expensive, but appears to be of higher quality. I'm not actually sure how muc…

The two stores deal with very different tagret markets and have very different economics. Whole Foods shoppers are willing to spend way more on produce, which is usually very low margin, so they don't need to make up the profit on their other items. Compare, for example Vons and Pavilions, which are owned by the same company. In my town we have a Vons literally across the street from Pavilions and while their prices for alcohol are the same, stuff like produce, coffee, and cereal can have a huge price differences even from the same vendor. Likewise, Trader Joes has the cheapest and best eggs, milk, and other staples in my general area, despite being overall more expensive.

When it comes to produce or meat, I have never seen anything at Whole Foods that would be more expensive at a low end grocery.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#76

Post by akiselev »

Alex3917 wrote: post #18

The veggies in NYC's hispanic green markets are also really cheap. Same with the produce in the Korean markets, the Cambodian markets, etc. While there might be something unique about the Chinese markets, I think in general stuff marketed to white people is just overpriced. Just look at how the cost of food at Smorgasburg compares with the cost of prepared food in Flushing, or at the price of housing between those tw…

This is my experience in Los Angeles as well. The Korean, Chinese, Armenian, and Mexican groceries are almost always cheaper than the national supermarket chains and often have better produce (with the exception of high end stores where you pay way more for quality) . NYC Chinatown may be a more extreme case due to density or something but American food marketing seems to have little to no effect on immigrant communities, which can easily support many low cost/high quality groceries in any metropolitan area.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#77

Post by thenewwazoo »

akiselev wrote: post #75
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear people say that, but I keep seeing things that are cheaper at Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. Identical products, like Endangered Species brand 88% dark chocolate and Racer 5 IPA beer are cheaper at my local Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. $3.29 vs $3.99 and $4.99 vs $5.99, respectively. Their produce and meat may be more expensive, but appears to be of higher quality. I'm not actually sure how muc…

The two stores deal with very different tagret markets and have very different economics. Whole Foods shoppers are willing to spend way more on produce, which is usually very low margin, so they don't need to make up the profit on their other items. Compare, for example Vons and Pavilions, which are owned by the same company. In my town we have a Vons literally across the street from Pavilions and while their prices…

Your experience definitely does not mirror mine. Where I live, there's a WF literally across the street from a Safeway. I've extensively comparison-shopped, and have found that WF's produce (I don't eat meat, sorry) is always cheaper than Safeway's, and there's lots more selection. In general, the local WF is cheaper for anything shopping the perimeter. Packaged goods are more expensive, and often not brand-for-brand comparable owing to WF's banned ingredients.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#78

Post by jimmywanger »

sidek wrote: post #58
jimmywanger wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It helps if you speak the language. I'm not saying you don't speak the language, just for those following along at home. You have to have some rough idea of what you want. If you want stir fried vegetables, you'll say something like "I want stir fried vegetables. What's good today?" Or "I want a seafood noodle soup. How do the mussels look? Any suggestions?" Time location is important. Instead of just saying "What's…

Really? Lived in HK for a long time, had lots of friends who grew up there/were very local.. never saw this happen. Is it regional?

You know, I never thought about it. Maybe.

Asian restaurants in Asia tend to specialize. You want curry, go to the curry place, if you want noodles, go to the noodle place.

Asian restaurants in the states (Thai and Chinese especially) have huge menus with no clear recommendations in the name. For instance, what are you getting when you go to Morton's steak house?

The name gives you the cue. Just like if you're heading into a restaurant called "Shanghai Dumpling House" you're probably getting dumplings.

"Golden Dragon" or "Wok Shop" gives you no information to work with, so you have to extract what is good from the waiter instead of the menu.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#79

Post by Havoc »

jonknee wrote: post #14
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #6

Growing up, I remember Marina Foods in Cupertino being much fresher than the other grocers. > Chinatown’s green grocers, in contrast, buy their stock from a handful of small wholesalers operating from tiny warehouses right in the neighborhood Chipotle tried hyper-localised procurement and processing. That backfired, since heterogeneity in sourcing and processing means heterogeneity in quality control. How do these ma…

> How do these markets avoid food poisoning their customers? Are the meat makers, distributors and retailers wholly separate? Do farmers of Asian vegetables avoid fertilising with manure? By not being a juicy target for a lawsuit. These are mom and pop shops that would just disappear into the ether if there was a big foodborne illness outbreak linked to their wares. They're also not selling prepared food--if you serv…

>They're also not selling prepared food--if you serve unsafe food that is because you did not prepare it correctly.

Well a lot of fruit & veg is consumed raw so "prepare it correctly" is of limited use.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#80

Post by jimmywanger »

driverdan wrote: post #57
jimmywanger wrote: post #17

I think that one factor is that in the Chinese culture, you don't expect everything to be good and available during all seasons. At a Whole Foods, you can reasonably be assured of asparagus in the winter time. In Chinatown, things are only available when they're in season, like a farmers' market. Also, if you've ever ordered at a Chinese restaurant with a Chinese family, you'll see this phenomenon. Instead of orderin…

> At a Whole Foods... I'm curious why did you compare to Whole Foods? They are far more expensive than a regular grocery store and their food is not better.

My main point is that most western groceries have an expectation of having any produce in any season, eg apples during the summer and peaches during the winter.

Whole Food is just an example of a national food chain most people are familiar with.

For example, outside of the west coast, nobody knows what an Albertson's is. And outside of the midwest, nobody knows what a HyVee is.

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