YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics • Hacker News Board

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#91

Post by CPLX » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 5:13 PM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #27

chickenfries wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and I think it's particularly necessary for them to improve the messaging around basic income in order for it to be politically successful.

On the other hand it allows YC to experiment and do stuff the politicians couldn't get away with. I quite like that they can say what they think rather than editing it to be politically appealing.

A concept like universal basic income is 100% thoroughly a political concept in every respect. There's no such thing as a successful program that ignores the aspect of its political appeal.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#92

Post by simplegeek » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 5:13 PM UTC

I tried really hard to find papers by Elizabeth Rhodes on basic income but I could not.

I was just wondering if she did lot of research on the topic that made her the most suitable candidate for the job.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#93

Post by bhickey » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

ratsmack wrote: post #25

daveguy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former. The latter is a racist caricature of welfare.

There was no race stated anywhere in the comment, so I believe you meant to use a word something like "stereotypical".

No, he didn't. This stereotypical depiction of welfare is a racial dog whistle. The whole point is to say "black" without saying "black".

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#94

Post by DSingularity » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

tamana wrote: post #66

louprado wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Let's let humans do more human (and humane) oriented tasks." The definition of "humane" keeps shifting over time and will always be a matter of perspective. To share a personal story, my father was unemployed while I was in college. Within a few months he looked like he had aged 10 years. Several months later he took a part time job as a landscaper and he started recovering. I remember coming home from college once,…

Is landscaping not employment?

That's his point. Although it wasn't a blue collar job like his dad originally had, it was still enough to keep him mentally healthy. Being completely unemployed sitting home harmed him psychologically.

His point was that having any job will create enough benefits to offset the supposed harms caused by having a job that one would consider himself overqualified for.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#95

Post by skybrian » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

gjkood wrote: post #17

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Along with the daily fish, does it makes sense to provide some sort of vocational training that an otherwise healthy person can take advantage of? If a person was not able to take advantage of early education for whatever reason, but is currently physically healthy, there is still opportunity to provide for himself and…

Basic income would help people do all sorts of things including having money to spend while you're getting your education.

Meanwhile, providing vocational training is a great thing.

Tying them together assumes you're a better judge of someone's needs when you don't know them. They may have a smarter way to spend or invest the money.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#96

Post by AnthonyMouse » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 5:16 PM UTC

TheCowboy wrote: post #3

Would individuals be restricted from using any government social welfare programs during this period? Many advocates propose funding basic income by disbanding current safety nets. If recipients are living in public housing, collecting food stamps, accepting federal student loans, or any other form of indirect government aid, then it skews the results.

> If recipients are living in public housing, collecting food stamps, accepting federal student loans, or any other form of indirect government aid, then it skews the results.

Depending on how much money it is, the extra income might disqualify them from receiving most of that stuff anyway, especially if they also have any kind of a job.

That's going to be the real thing to watch out for though. If the basic income isn't enough to disqualify you from welfare but basic income + job is, the study is going to be useless unless you prohibit the subjects from also applying for welfare.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#97

Post by DonaldFisk » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 5:25 PM UTC

TheCowboy wrote: post #3

Would individuals be restricted from using any government social welfare programs during this period? Many advocates propose funding basic income by disbanding current safety nets. If recipients are living in public housing, collecting food stamps, accepting federal student loans, or any other form of indirect government aid, then it skews the results.

Isn't receipt of benefits from these government social welfare programs dependent on having no other source of income? If so, the recipients of the basic income would lose the benefits. If not, the benefits are themselves a form of basic income.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#98

Post by bhickey » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 5:28 PM UTC

daveguy wrote: post #54

yummyfajitas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets interpret the claim charitably - people on welfare have reduced work effort, increased fertility, and increased drug consumption. Do you assert that any of those claims are false?

The assertion is that none of those are inherent qualities of a group. Reduced work effort is a chicken egg issue. Of course people on welfare are going to have reduced "work effort" -- joblessness is probably what made you have to get it in the first place. Same with drug consumption. I would question any "higher drug use" measure as selection bias -- investment bankers aren't generally being drug tested are they? T…

Poor people use illegal drugs at a lower rate than wealthy people. Probably because drugs are expensive and they don't have as much leisure time.

The notion that we should drug test welfare recipients is just an outgrowth of condescending Calvinist morality.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#99

Post by simbalion » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 5:31 PM UTC

This is the stupidest idea ever, for a lot of reasons that anyone can find in a basic class or a few web searches on economics.

Why did this get voted on in the netherlands? Why is this being tried in America? This is dumber than communism.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#100

Post by themartorana » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 5:31 PM UTC

mattkrisiloff wrote: post #90

themartorana wrote: post #87

"I think that there’s a culture at YC that just making money isn’t that interesting." That's a tad disingenuous. I'm sure "anymore" might clarify it, but it's easy to say when you are rich.

well fwiw, I'm a staff member, wouldn't consider myself rich, and that culture is what keeps me wanting to work there--I'd be pretty bored if it was more like a traditional VC firm.

Fair enough. Apologies if that felt disrespectful.

It just seemed silly language to me, especially in light of the program focusing on how money can alleviate the majority of poverty's struggles.