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Sturgeon seeks Brussels talks to protect Scotland's EU membership

theguardian.com

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Re: Sturgeon seeks Brussels talks to protect Scotland's EU membership

#31

Post by jacquesm »

rayiner wrote: post #18
matthewmacleod wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's disingenuous and you know it. One of the main attractions of London as a banking centre is its EU membership. Sure, there are others, but it seems extremely likely that companies will relocate because they judge access to the EU market as more important.

London was a banking capital long before the EU existed. And Hong Kong became a banking capital under British governance. Look at it another way. Europe has been unable to recreate Silicon Valley. What makes you think it'll be so easy to recreate the City?

Europe has been unable to recreate Silicon Valley for a large number of reasons none of which have anything to do with why they can't move their financial center to Frankfurt.

Just a couple of them:

- no single language market of 300M people

- different attitude towards investment

- different attitude towards entrepreneurship

- no reason to cluster that much in such a small space

In fact, the US has been unable to 'recreate Silicon Valley', it's a world-wide accidental one-off and drawing parallels between its one-off-existence, lack of being replicated anywhere at all and the fact that London was a banking capital before the EU existed does nothing to guarantee Londons continued existence as a banking capital outside an otherwise unified EU once a large number of very relevant parties pulls out and is drawing very strange conclusions out of unrelated data.

The biggest hits from the brexit will be felt in London and it is already happening.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/24/london-brexit-jobs/

Re: Sturgeon seeks Brussels talks to protect Scotland's EU membership

#32

Post by jacquesm »

Oletros wrote: post #28
BrutallyHonest wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, although I wouldn't rush it. Worth seeing which countries will remain in the EU by the time UK finalises the exit.

> Worth seeing which countries will remain in the EU by the time UK finalises the exit All of them? The only ones asking a referendum are two far right parties in Holland and France

Between Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders they can still do a lot of damage to those countries but NL without the EU is a joke and France has way too much to lose (more than the UK did) so I highly doubt (hope?) that this will not come to pass.

Re: Sturgeon seeks Brussels talks to protect Scotland's EU membership

#33

Post by DonaldFisk »

_9MOTHER9HORSE wrote: post #25
duncanawoods wrote: post #24

There is a huge problem that the EU and IndyRef questions are mutually dependent and cannot be fairly resolved by asking independent questions in sequence. I believe the nuance of the situation requires multiple questions to be asked at the same time. Given we have already had IndyRef1 and EU1 the defaults are that Scotland is part of the UK and that there will be a Brexit. There is something wrong about repeating re…

This is quite an elegant solution, and I like it. I also think if we just held the same EU referendum again -- a sort of "are you sure?" -- the response would be a decisive remain vote.

And if the vote is again for leaving the EU, should we keep asking the question until we get the answer you want?

All the vote was about was UK membership of the EU: not austerity, the exchange rate of the pound, the integrity of the UK, or immigration. Anyone who voted thinking otherwise should accept the consequences. Things are going exactly as planned: the UK is now going to leave the EU, and if one or two parts of it secede, those areas which did vote to leave are going to leave the EU.

Re: Sturgeon seeks Brussels talks to protect Scotland's EU membership

#34

Post by rayiner »

jacquesm wrote: post #31
rayiner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London was a banking capital long before the EU existed. And Hong Kong became a banking capital under British governance. Look at it another way. Europe has been unable to recreate Silicon Valley. What makes you think it'll be so easy to recreate the City?

Europe has been unable to recreate Silicon Valley for a large number of reasons none of which have anything to do with why they can't move their financial center to Frankfurt. Just a couple of them: - no single language market of 300M people - different attitude towards investment - different attitude towards entrepreneurship - no reason to cluster that much in such a small space In fact, the US has been unable to 'r…

> Europe has been unable to recreate Silicon Valley for a large number of reasons none of which have anything to do with why they can't move their financial center to Frankfurt.

I'd argue that a lot of the reasons overlap. The key ones being: pre-existing access to capital, access to talent, and tolerance for risk-taking.

Re: Sturgeon seeks Brussels talks to protect Scotland's EU membership

#35

Post by amouat »

bArray wrote: post #21
BrutallyHonest wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more fair to hold a referendum in England whether it should be united with Scotland. Would be more productive for Scotland's independence.

I know of a lot of British people who do not want Scotland to be part of the UK. They get more funding per head, their own government and then complain they are unfairly treated.

Unfairly treated? You mean like being dragged out of a union against our political will?

Re: Sturgeon seeks Brussels talks to protect Scotland's EU membership

#36

Post by jacquesm »

rayiner wrote: post #34
jacquesm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has been unable to recreate Silicon Valley for a large number of reasons none of which have anything to do with why they can't move their financial center to Frankfurt. Just a couple of them: - no single language market of 300M people - different attitude towards investment - different attitude towards entrepreneurship - no reason to cluster that much in such a small space In fact, the US has been unable to 'r…

> Europe has been unable to recreate Silicon Valley for a large number of reasons none of which have anything to do with why they can't move their financial center to Frankfurt. I'd argue that a lot of the reasons overlap. The key ones being: pre-existing access to capital, access to talent, and tolerance for risk-taking.

Capital is very easy to move (and is already moving), banking talent is not rare and tolerance for risk taking? We're talking about banking here. The tolerance for risk taking in banking goes just so far that you are not fired if the risk is covered before you are found out. Start-ups and banking have very little to do with each other.

I'd like to see a start-up succeed under the kind of risk-averse attitude that's prevalent in a bank and the kind of reporting duties they have.

Note that NYC is the banking center of the United States (and to some extent of the world) and that NYC also did not manage to re-create Silicon Valley.

Re: Sturgeon seeks Brussels talks to protect Scotland's EU membership

#37

Post by cygx »

_9MOTHER9HORSE wrote: post #26
gggggggggg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might not be a UK by the time the exit is finalized, that is the brutally honest subject of this thread.

There might not be an EU by the time Scotland gets a vote to secede and begins an application to join the EU. Fascinating time to be alive.

There might not be an EU by the time Scotland gets a vote to secede

Doubtful: As long as France and Germany are on board, the EU will survive in some fashion.

The comment[1] of German economist Max Otte[2] regarding the British vote? Good riddance, now we can stop accomodating UK sensibilities. Also remember, when the UK wanted to join the EEC? De Gaulle sent them packing twice...

[1] http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/otte-interview-zu-brexit...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Otte

Re: Sturgeon seeks Brussels talks to protect Scotland's EU membership

#40

Post by jwdunne »

amouat wrote: post #35
bArray wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of a lot of British people who do not want Scotland to be part of the UK. They get more funding per head, their own government and then complain they are unfairly treated.

Unfairly treated? You mean like being dragged out of a union against our political will?

Personally, I think you do deserve a second referendum. The remain/leave map shows a clear border. Northumberland votes out. North of that, its all remain.

The biggest thing to me is that many in the leave camp used very similar arguments against the leave camp in the Scottish indy ref.

That and the EU/better together camp said Scotland wouldn't be part of the EU if they left and should therefore stay.

Note: from Manchester. Voted remain. Don't see the SNP as the national threat they're portrayed to be.

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