Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 396 posts

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#41

Post by T-A »

gambiting wrote: post #15
volatilitish wrote: post #2

As a brit, it's strange to see how it's being spun here. The majority of people voted to leave the EU and to regain independence. There will be a little volatility until some facts about how that divorce happens, emerge. Long term, we now have control of our future. In terms of startups though, the EU is there to serve big businesses and powerful establishment. It's there to hinder startups and small businesses. If y…

I run a small company trading between UK and two other EU countries. This is a disaster - I remember back when you had to pay import duties in countries that haven't joined the EU yet, and basically with razor thin margins, the added cost of bureaucracy would collapse the company now. I'm already considering switching suppliers from UK to Germany, which of course means that UK economy will have less money - and I'm s…

A reasonable outcome would be for the UK to join EFTA [1]. That should be pretty much neutral with regard to commerce.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Associatio...

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#42

Post by masklinn »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #28
vonnik wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Independence is a mirage, as is control. No individual nor country in the world is independent. We are all interdependent on one another, and ever more so as the movement of data, goods and people accelerates. The EU is a framework is facilitate that interdependence, and while it has many faults, it was created to prevent another world war and in that it has succeeded. Great Britain's future is very dependent on the…

The EU will make the UK pay a price for Brexit, and rightly so, otherwise all member states would leave and still enjoy the free movement of goods and people. You make the EU sound like an abusive spouse. "Don't leave me or I'll hurt you!" Do you believe that if the UK leaves the EU, France and Germany will go to war? If not, I don't see how "created to prevent another world war" is relevant.

> You make the EU sound like an abusive spouse. "Don't leave me or I'll hurt you!"

The UK decided that it could tell the EU to get fucked and get all the benefits of the relationship without any of the drawbacks, it is not in the EU's interest to confirm that and it has very little reason to bend over for the UK. To reuse your ménage analogy, it's more like one spouse deciding to up and go and asking for the house, car, accounts and still being invited to christmas and family dinners.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#43

Post by nickbauman »

vonnik wrote: post #14
volatilitish wrote: post #2

As a brit, it's strange to see how it's being spun here. The majority of people voted to leave the EU and to regain independence. There will be a little volatility until some facts about how that divorce happens, emerge. Long term, we now have control of our future. In terms of startups though, the EU is there to serve big businesses and powerful establishment. It's there to hinder startups and small businesses. If y…

Independence is a mirage, as is control. No individual nor country in the world is independent. We are all interdependent on one another, and ever more so as the movement of data, goods and people accelerates. The EU is a framework is facilitate that interdependence, and while it has many faults, it was created to prevent another world war and in that it has succeeded. Great Britain's future is very dependent on the…

Exactly this. One of the illusions of control people have is that Britain now has a free hand to negotiate trade agreements with EU member states. The EU charter expressly forbids this. So Britain (or perhaps merely a rump England after Northern Ireland and Scotland EExit) will be dealing with that same body but on unequal ground with other member states. Meet the new boss: Same as the old boss. I'm pretty sure you've been fooled (again).

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#44

Post by ubernostrum »

T-A wrote: post #41
gambiting wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run a small company trading between UK and two other EU countries. This is a disaster - I remember back when you had to pay import duties in countries that haven't joined the EU yet, and basically with razor thin margins, the added cost of bureaucracy would collapse the company now. I'm already considering switching suppliers from UK to Germany, which of course means that UK economy will have less money - and I'm s…

A reasonable outcome would be for the UK to join EFTA [1]. That should be pretty much neutral with regard to commerce. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Associatio...

Of course, as people have been at pains to point out, trying to get a deal like that involves paying the EU money and adopting a bunch of "damned Brussels regulations", but now with no voice in the European Parliament.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#45

Post by [deleted] »

volatilitish wrote: post #2

As a brit, it's strange to see how it's being spun here. The majority of people voted to leave the EU and to regain independence. There will be a little volatility until some facts about how that divorce happens, emerge. Long term, we now have control of our future. In terms of startups though, the EU is there to serve big businesses and powerful establishment. It's there to hinder startups and small businesses. If y…

[deleted]

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#46

Post by searine »

Scirra_Tom wrote: post #24
searine wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It was created to prevent another world war and in that it has succeeded. As if. It was created as an amalgamation of post-war globalist trade deals. The EU administrative bodies were tacked on later to make it palatable as a governing body. It's not inherently bad that an organization is founded on trade, but don't shit on my plate and call it pudding.

> It was created as an amalgamation of post-war globalist trade deals. To deincentivise countries going to war with each other...

To make money.

Deincentivising some kinds of war might have been a unexpected benefit, but it wasn't the motive.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#47

Post by return0 »

volatilitish wrote: post #2

As a brit, it's strange to see how it's being spun here. The majority of people voted to leave the EU and to regain independence. There will be a little volatility until some facts about how that divorce happens, emerge. Long term, we now have control of our future. In terms of startups though, the EU is there to serve big businesses and powerful establishment. It's there to hinder startups and small businesses. If y…

> to regain independence.

I hope that word doesn't stick. All EU countries are independent, as is the UK. For the sake of all 27 EU countries , please stop using divisive and wrong rhetoric.

> Long term, we now have control of our future.

I would like to hear one concrete way in which the future is going to be, after the negotiations, substantially different than what it is today.

> And can anyone on here really stand up for the idiotic cookie law? Can you stand up for the "html link tax"? That's just the tip of the iceberg with the meddling from the EU.

The cookie law and the lack of a small-business friendly common VAT policy are things to work on (html link tax does not exist), certainly not a reason for such a significant rift. OTOH, i hope you had stayed to enjoy zero data roaming fees within the next year.

> If you're pro-small business, then you should be excited about the opportunities we have now.

Sure. I use ebay.co.uk all the time, because apparently lots of sellers there willing to sell to the EU, and we have no import duties that way. Import duties is going to be a deal breaker for me. Exciting opportunities indeed.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#48

Post by Animats »

This may mean the breakup of the United Kingdom, too. Scotland and Northern Ireland mostly want to stay in Europe, and may choose to leave the UK, leaving Britain and Wales as the UK.[1]

As a practical matter, it will become harder to do business into the EU from Britain. Visiting the EU from Britain may require a visa, and visiting Britain from the EU almost certainly will.

This is really about Keeping Britain White.[2] "White Pride World Wide" used to be a joke from Stormfront. Now it's becoming mainstream policy. (See Trump campaign.)

[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/leave-or-remain-e...

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/22/...

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#49

Post by coderdude »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #38
coderdude wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for the grandmother country to break out on its own. I've never had a high opinion of the EU. Mostly because of their ridiculous laws about the internet. I'm happy about this and I hope it works out well.

I've never had a high opinion of a divided Europe, mostly because of the two world wars that started there. The problems driving the brexit will not suddenly get better now. I'll put it this way: has economic isolationism ever made a country better off in the history of history? I can't think of a time.

It's not like all of trade is going to stop there. Isolationism, more like sensationalism.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#50

Post by djschnei »

dragonwriter wrote: post #33
djschnei wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is a vast bureaucracy, not a "framework for interdependence." You don't need a limitless bureaucracy to prevent war, you need free and open commerce. Otto T. Mallery, a late 19th century liberal, in his “Economic Union and Enduring Peace” states, “If soldiers are not to cross international boundaries, goods must do so. Unless the Shackles can be dropped from trade, bombs will be dropped from the sky.” Are you…

> The EU is a vast bureaucracy, not a "framework for interdependence." Frameworks for interdependence and vast bureaucracies aren't mutually exclusive (in fact, they often go together: the US federal government is both of those things, too.)

I suppose, semantically you are correct. I would suggest that a framework for mutually beneficial interaction (interdependence?) doesn't need a bureaucracy to be enforced. In fact, the need for a coercive third party proves the shortcomings of said framework.
Post reply on HN