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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#861

Post by vacri »

hueving wrote: post #840
notacoward wrote: post #766

That's a very strange, and in some cases inaccurate, portrayal of history. * The British were not an external enemy. That would have been the French. For the most part, even the people leading the revolution were proud of being British subjects and would have liked to remain so, but could no longer tolerate the conditions being attached to that status. Our enemy was recognized to be our own cousins, not some external…

>The British were not an external enemy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party >The shared dream of settling the continent was real but - given that said continent was already occupied I doubt you understand how large the US is if you think that. Most of it was empty. The union was already strongly formed before the genocide of the west got under way. >Shared culture, language, religion? Language, mostly. I…

>The British were not an external enemy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

From your own link: "Colonists objected to the Tea Act because they believed that it violated their rights as Englishmen" (my emphasis)

The article then goes on to say that after the Tea Party, the colonists petitioned the monarch... not exactly something you'd to do an external force.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#863

Post by Steeeve »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #216
arethuza wrote: post #199

I wonder if the EU will now say that Scotland can get membership if we vote for independence? Obviously they couldn't do that while the UK was in the EU, but now that the UK wants to leave and Scotland doesn't that view might well change. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-3659... NB On a personal note I am way more upset by this result than any other election or referendum I have voted in - even…

I'd wager Scotland will want to leave the UK and join the EU. But I'd also wager that the backdoor deals made during the exit negotiations will prevent that from happening.

I'd take that wager. The margin's in Scottland were not high enough to indicate that kind of radical step. 80% of the people who voted remain would have to want to take the additional steps of departing the UK and joining the EU.

Considering that the voting demographics state that the strong remain vote lies with youth, that means getting the youth to vote again and making sure they don't have their minds changed again.

Then you'd have to have the EU not piss off Scottish people in regards to the UK departure AND offer generous terms to them to revolt.

It's a talking point today, but Scotland isn't going to join the EU independently.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#864

Post by lukasm »

darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

Negotiation Leverage.

Not a fan of EU bureaucracy, but I think entity like this is a necessity. It's really hard to negotiate with a 10x actor like USA or China.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#865

Post by justinator »

hueving wrote: post #840
notacoward wrote: post #766

That's a very strange, and in some cases inaccurate, portrayal of history. * The British were not an external enemy. That would have been the French. For the most part, even the people leading the revolution were proud of being British subjects and would have liked to remain so, but could no longer tolerate the conditions being attached to that status. Our enemy was recognized to be our own cousins, not some external…

>The British were not an external enemy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party >The shared dream of settling the continent was real but - given that said continent was already occupied I doubt you understand how large the US is if you think that. Most of it was empty. The union was already strongly formed before the genocide of the west got under way. >Shared culture, language, religion? Language, mostly. I…

> I doubt you understand how large the US is if you think > that. Most of it was empty. The union was already strongly > formed before the genocide of the west got under way.

According to the book 1491 (which is a great read, highly recommended), the population of the New World was much larger, and more more historic than we may be lead to imagine. Millions of Native Americans lived on the east coast alone. What may have did them in was disease (smallpox, etc) that desecrated the people before even the pilgrims came on the scene. What the first colonist may have seen was just all that was left of a epidemic.

(I also agree a genocide also happened in the West, from what survivors there were)

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#866

Post by Chris2048 »

notahacker wrote: post #619
siscia wrote: post #426

We are all talking about economics but the whole deal is way more noble than mere money. No European ever has never think "woow this shinny $consumer_object is been produced inside the EU so I don't get to pay the import tax" but every single European younger than 50 at least once in its life has open up the Ryanair website and thought "for 30€ I guess this weekend I will be in London/Paris/Berlin/Madrid/Rome". The w…

> The most infuriating thing is that the oldest part of the English population is taking aways these opportunities from the youngest British. I think that's the second most infuriating part of it. The areas of the country that overwhelmingly voted against "unlimited immigration" from Europe have predominantly the ones that barely received any immigrants. Whilst London, which is destination numero uno for EU migrants,…

> it's the one on migration that has got usual non-voters from council estates in Sunderland queuing to place their ballots

Says who?

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#867

Post by dragonwriter »

Udo wrote: post #520
geff82 wrote: post #107

I'll take my UK company home to Germany at the end of the year. No need for a base in a non-EU-country.

If you're originally from Germany, you will be forced to leave the UK anyway. In a sense, getting people like you out of the country was a big part of the whole Brexit proposition...

> If you're originally from Germany, you will be forced to leave the UK anyway.

Its amazing that you know what the terms of the exit deal that Britain and the EU will negotiate under Article 50 already.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#868

Post by mcv »

notahacker wrote: post #619
siscia wrote: post #426

We are all talking about economics but the whole deal is way more noble than mere money. No European ever has never think "woow this shinny $consumer_object is been produced inside the EU so I don't get to pay the import tax" but every single European younger than 50 at least once in its life has open up the Ryanair website and thought "for 30€ I guess this weekend I will be in London/Paris/Berlin/Madrid/Rome". The w…

> The most infuriating thing is that the oldest part of the English population is taking aways these opportunities from the youngest British. I think that's the second most infuriating part of it. The areas of the country that overwhelmingly voted against "unlimited immigration" from Europe have predominantly the ones that barely received any immigrants. Whilst London, which is destination numero uno for EU migrants,…

This might in fact be a big part of the reason why London voted Remain. They need the best minds from all over Europe.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#869

Post by cfmcdonald »

hueving wrote: post #840
notacoward wrote: post #766

That's a very strange, and in some cases inaccurate, portrayal of history. * The British were not an external enemy. That would have been the French. For the most part, even the people leading the revolution were proud of being British subjects and would have liked to remain so, but could no longer tolerate the conditions being attached to that status. Our enemy was recognized to be our own cousins, not some external…

>The British were not an external enemy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party >The shared dream of settling the continent was real but - given that said continent was already occupied I doubt you understand how large the US is if you think that. Most of it was empty. The union was already strongly formed before the genocide of the west got under way. >Shared culture, language, religion? Language, mostly. I…

Huh, most of the continental U.S. was definitely not empty. It was all peopled. Unless you mean there were many miles between every settlement or something. But that's not really relevant.

The conflict between settlers and natives started pretty much right away (i.e. the early 1600s), long before there was any union.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#870

Post by 627467 »

sevenless wrote: post #669
627467 wrote: post #283

The alt-right agenda gets their first win. It's not just crazy ideas that people will never validate.

There's nothing 'alt' about xenophobia over immigration. This is also the primary explanation for the rise of UKIP, the Front National, the Dansk Folkeparti, the AfD, Geert Wilders’ PVV, and so on.

I should have placed quotes around "alt-right" as there's not much "alt" in "alt-right" either.
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