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California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

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Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#171

Post by chrisseaton »

TDL wrote: post #87
chrisseaton wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing away with pensions? Huh? How would that work? What would everyone do when they got too old to work? Do you think people should just build up a savings account? Without an annuity what would they do if they live longer than they planned and run out of savings?

There are other accounts/instruments that can replace public pensions. The reality is that politicians over promise on pensions and create unsustainable obligations for future generations.

They could just use defined contribution then there's no future liability.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#172

Post by superswordfish »

xigency wrote: post #153
superswordfish wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conversations are on a different level though. In a secondary tech market you'll hear CoffeeScript vs. JavaScript, Laravel vs Rails or whatever. In the Bay Area, and also in Cambridge, the discussion might be about compiler architecture or reverse engineering.

I would place those three or four conversations on the same level, to be frank. Also, living somewhere that isn't a tech capital, I'm actually annoyed to hear programming language discussion on the bus in the city, but maybe that's because I'm trying to get home from my job, not stay at my desk.

You're absolutely right. A better example of the former would be somebody building a basic CRUD app but describing it in brutal detail, throwing around as many words that buzz to the speaker as possible (REST, API, Bootstrap, etc.). Of course there's nothing wrong with that but it's boring as hell to overhear. A better description would be that in primary tech markets, the conversations tend to go much deeper and into areas that others would consider esoteric.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#173

Post by WalterBright »

rconti wrote: post #151
arethuza wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What geological features of the Bay Area do you regard as a plus point? NB Not being snarky - I live in Edinburgh which is overflowing with geological features [hence arguably being the birthplace of geology as a science] and I love that factor but the main geological feature of the Bay Area would appear to be a major disadvantage rather than a feature?

I guess parent meant geographical. Ocean, bay, mountains, forests, near-deserts, all in close proximity.

Seattle has much the same, with the plus of waterskiing in the middle of the city on Lake Washington. Of course, the boom in prices is affecting Seattle, too.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#174

Post by cylinder »

chrisseaton wrote: post #66
TDL wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. I think pensions are a mistake in general, however, many municipalities, counties, and states are locked in to existing pensions schemes. I am for doing away with pensions in the future, but the existing obligations need to be funded appropriately.

Doing away with pensions? Huh? How would that work? What would everyone do when they got too old to work? Do you think people should just build up a savings account? Without an annuity what would they do if they live longer than they planned and run out of savings?

They would save money themselves? I thought America is all about personal responsibility and independence and such? They can use 401k just like the private sector.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#175

Post by superswordfish »

pm90 wrote: post #157
superswordfish wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just pray you don't end up on the wrong side of the law (to be fair, the same could be said of CA).

How do you mean?

The death penalty, and heavy incarceration with atrocious conditions.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#176

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #160
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government jobs are dull, underpaid, largely unrewarding, and people in them have to take shit from Ayn Rand acolytes like you every day for problems that are way above their pay grade. Assuring that the people who serve society don't spend their final years in poverty is the least we can do.

There's social security, retirement funds, and savings. Why does 'government job' mean anything special?

Government jobs are often very low pay. Many government workers who are promised a pension are locked out of social security. If you are being paid so low that you cannot save for regular expenses, let alone retirement, then what are you going to do when you turn 65? Turn over and die immediately?

Also, the reason you assure pension to government employees is because they tend to be stable and dependable workers over the long term.

I bet you would lose your shit if government employees in your town had the turnover of a McDonald's. Higher turnover costs mean higher taxes and much worse/less dependable service.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#177

Post by mmanfrin »

I have literally never heard anyone cite California taxes as having any contribution on them leaving. The only people I've heard mention 'high California taxes' are people who are explicitly trying to solicit Californians to move to wherever they are ('come to Texas! We have way lower taxes than you!').

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#178

Post by niftich »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #167

Anyone else alarmed that a doctor was leaving because the rent was too high? A doctor is one of the jobs that is expected to pay top dollar in American society. If a doctor can't make it in the Bay Area, who's going to cut your hair, serve your beer, or mow your lawn? If wages don't rise in line with skyrocketing living costs, then the only alternative is a permenantly impoverished underclass. People of the Bay Area:…

The permanently impoverished underclass is already here [1][2][3][4], so the answer seems to be yes.

[1] https://newrepublic.com/article/124476/dispossessed-land-dre...

[2] http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/the-plac...

[3] https://www.thenation.com/article/bridging-silicon-valleys-w...

[4] http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/25/news/economy/middle-class-si...

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#179

Post by chrisseaton »

cylinder wrote: post #174
chrisseaton wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing away with pensions? Huh? How would that work? What would everyone do when they got too old to work? Do you think people should just build up a savings account? Without an annuity what would they do if they live longer than they planned and run out of savings?

They would save money themselves? I thought America is all about personal responsibility and independence and such? They can use 401k just like the private sector.

But a private 401k is just another type of pension. The people I was replying to were saying that pensions, in general, so of all types, were a bad idea.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#180

Post by coroutines »

sideband wrote: post #33

There's some sort of Stockholm syndrome prevalent among too many Bay Area residents that compels them to accept the lower quality of life. I lived there for several years until recently, and it was a surreal experience to hear others discuss the sacrifices they were making just to have a roof over their family's head, to provide a half-decent education for their children. And these were well-payed folks at the brand-…

As a California resident, I have the impression I live in the technology center of the world, that I am part of the 6th largest economy in the world, and that California is a beautiful place to live - and more importantly, that once you move out of California you will not be able to move back.

Also we have Feinstein so that's... that's a joy.

PS: I love it how there's a desperate need for cheap housing, and developments are approved - but always priced for big-earners.

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