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Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

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Re: Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

#141

Post by Godel_unicode »

rayiner wrote: post #64

I'm looking forward to getting rid of the headphone jack. I'm looking forward to getting a MacBook Pro with the MacBook low-travel keyboard. I'd even be fine with a MacBook Pro with a single USB-C port! One thing Apple gets is that you don't need to constrain your design to appease small minorities of users. I bet 99.9% of people only ever plug in the stock earbuds or a pair of Beats they bought at the Apple Store. S…

Have you never been on an airplane? Bose on virtually every head, because their noise cancelling is the best (and protected by patent). Look at all the work Bose and Beats put in to fighting each other for endorsement and "official headphones of..." deals.

This is about giving Beats a leg up on Bose, or at least stealing revenue in licensing or dongles.

Re: Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

#142

Post by vocatus_gate »

jwebb99 wrote: post #77

I don't understand this push to get rid of the analogue headphone jack. It's a solution in search of a problem--like removing physical buttons from the Kindle...the alternative (touch screen page turns) is more high-tech, but not as pleasant. I'm sure audophiles would appreciate a digital interface for their headphones, but everyone else is perfectly content to use cheap $5 earbuds for their highly compressed audio f…

The term you're looking for is "chronological snobbery," coined by C.S. Lewis. It's the idea that something is worthless because it isn't new.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_snobbery

Re: Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

#143

Post by Godel_unicode »

fluxquanta wrote: post #47
gambiting wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you get latest updates, unlike phones from literally any other manufacturer. If it's not the top-range model then you can consider yourself lucky to get even one update before the phone is completely forgotten.

This is one of the two reasons I switched to an iPhone after being a staunch Android supporter since the first Samsung Galaxy device. The other being the fact that I was sick of my carrier installing branded software without my explicit consent. No Sprint, I'm not and never will be interested in your NASCAR app.

This is a false dichotomy, there are Android phones which are distributed using the Apple model (straight from the vendor with no cruft, activate on whatever carrier you want). Moto X, for instance.

Re: Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

#144

Post by sethhochberg »

phil21 wrote: post #128
falcolas wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd have no problem with USB-C headphones. I would. Can you imagine how terrible the sound would be for 90% of the headphone market? We have all of these manufacturers racing to the bottom of the headphone market, offering crappy speakers and microphones for $50. Now we expect them to also include an amp and DAC? The least expensive, decent headphone USB DAC that I've personally used was already over $70, and it's…

Why does everyone keep saying you need a DAC? That's an option, the other option is simply using the physical connector for an old-school analog audio connection. If the concern is device manufacturers won't support USB-C analog audio that's one thing, but pretending like it isn't the (current) intention to utilize is quite strange to me. This is quite literally changing a round plug to a oval one if implemented prop…

Many people don't trust that it will be "implemented properly and to the spec". Even look at something like Displayport on Macbooks - the hardware chosen and standard used is functionally capable of spec'd features like passthrough, and this even works on non-stock operating systems, but Apple simply refuses to implement them in their drivers.

Digital, analog, or both... I don't want to have to worry about the parts of the spec implemented on my specific device's connector. Stereo audio is not complicated stuff and shouldn't be made to be that way.

Re: Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

#145

Post by diamondtrim »

jccc wrote: post #102
SloopJon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is amazing apologism, even for Gruber. "And in five years we’ll look at analog headphone jacks the way we look at all the other legacy ports we’ve abandoned." In five years, there are going to a lot of crappy Lightning earbuds in drawers and landfills.

> Maybe now is the wrong time, and Apple is making a mistake. I don’t know. > Patel misses the bigger problem. It’s not enforcement of DRM on audio playback. It’s enforcement of the MFi Program for certifying hardware that uses the Lightning port. Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port. > Presumably Apple’s Lightning earbuds w…

I don't know what I need John Gruber is. But I'd say those quotes you pulled are pretty intentionally characterizing the potential (and legitimate) issues somehow acceptable. Why would I want Apple to regulate the third party headphones available to me? The headphone market might be a bit too large to track, but having that many choices isn't a problem in my mind. I'm free to research and select from the myriad options at any price point. Those who prefer to buy Apple endorsed products can go to their store and find Beats or whomever on the shelf. Tell me what advantage is gained by eliminating the other options in be market?

And I see no significant advantage to the change in technology itself. Optical ports provide a measurable advantage in sound fidelity over analog, but you haven't seen them eliminate composite or component ports from home receivers, because there are also significant disadvantages in cost and length of optical cables. I don't even follow that there's such gains to be made from switching to lightning...

Which leaves me at the obvious conclusion that this is just a ploy to sell more adapters and reap licensing fees from vendors at the expense of their customer.

And remarks he makes like "Cough up the extra $29 for a new pair" convey exactly the tone that is bothering us all.

Re: Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

#146

Post by ctrl-j »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #136
shanemhansen wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already use my phone's charging port for charging. I'd find it very annoying if I couldn't charge and listen to music at the same time (without buying some sort of USBC hub).

Is it reasonable to say the vast majority of people simply do not sit next to a charger with the headphones in, more than once a year? I'd think so. I've literally never done it myself. I appreciate there are edge cases and that it's a tricky decision, but getting 5% of a phone's volume/thickness back for a port Further I think the majority of charge & listen usecases are those where dongles aren't horrible. (althoug…

When I work from home my office calls my cell. So I often have my headset plugged in and my phone charging.

Wireless headphone tech isn't there yet. There's problems that are going to be fairly difficult to solve. Problems that won't be solved in the next iPhone. For instance, again when I'm working from home, my headphones get unplugged from my computer and plugged into my phone when a call comes in. With wireless I would have to unpair from my computer, and then pair to my phone.. Not to mention, for longer calls I'd have to wear my headphones while they're plugged in? Or what?

All this trouble for a thinner phone? Is the iphone 6s really that fat? I don't need it any thinner. Do 95% of people need it thinner? It looks like they are solving a non-problem and introducing new ones. (Or what's really going on is the whole DRM lobbying thing, and they're just pulling sleight of hand.)

Re: Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

#147

Post by ZenoArrow »

Navarr wrote: post #13

I don't think abandoning the headphone jack is a bad idea. I think abandoning it for lightning is a bad idea. Is apple so desperate for hardware money that there is not a single "open" connector on the iPhone? Why Lightning as opposed to USB-C? Why make it so that people need a completely different set of headphones just for apple devices? (Bluetooth not withstanding)

> "Why Lightning as opposed to USB-C?"

Why use either? One of the main reasons behind this push to get rid of the 3.5mm jack is DRM. Is that something you really want?

Re: Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

#148

Post by niels_olson »

vocatus_gate wrote: post #134
rsync wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So what happens if I want to charge my phone (e.g. from an external battery) and listen to headphones at the same time? Do I have to use some sort of ... dongle? That’s going to get silly." What happens if you want to charge your new 12" macbook and you also need to use your cellular dongle ? They've shown total contempt for even this common, necessary use-case - why would they not show the same contempt for your us…

I have a strong distaste for what C.S. Lewis called "chronological snobbery;" the idea that something is worthless simply because it isn't new. Age is meaningless when evaluating technology and its function. It could be 1000 years old or 10; what matters if fulfills the requirements of the relevant use-case in an acceptable manner.

Hammers work great. Always have.

Re: Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

#149

Post by bryanlarsen »

nibnib wrote: post #112
markbao wrote: post #108

Four opinions, going off of this article and partly in response to Gruber's[0]: 1. There was a functional reason that CDs and floppies went out of style: low capacity and the Internet. What’s the functional reason to get rid of analog headphones? It’s not quality – analog headphones have excellent sound quality, and 99% of people won’t be able to tell the difference with ‘digital’ sound, right? 2. So what happens if…

Wireless headphones are another battery to charge, maintain, replace... Not ideal, imo not even an improvement. My phone is on my person when I use headphones with it, so untethering isn't really a plus. The only advantage I can think of is keeping a phone in a pocket or bag while listening to music, which doesn't seem worth it all.

Wireless headphones with a dead battery should[1] work when plugged into the phone. So if you don't want to worry about the battery, just keep it connected to the phone. Sort of the best of both worlds.

should: I don't know if they actually do, I've never used usb-c or lightning headphones. But they should.

Re: Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

#150

Post by chiph »

rsync wrote: post #117
markbao wrote: post #108

Four opinions, going off of this article and partly in response to Gruber's[0]: 1. There was a functional reason that CDs and floppies went out of style: low capacity and the Internet. What’s the functional reason to get rid of analog headphones? It’s not quality – analog headphones have excellent sound quality, and 99% of people won’t be able to tell the difference with ‘digital’ sound, right? 2. So what happens if…

"So what happens if I want to charge my phone (e.g. from an external battery) and listen to headphones at the same time? Do I have to use some sort of ... dongle? That’s going to get silly." What happens if you want to charge your new 12" macbook and you also need to use your cellular dongle ? They've shown total contempt for even this common, necessary use-case - why would they not show the same contempt for your us…

It's not just Apple doing this. Lenovo/Moto is removing the 3.5mm jack from their next Android phone too.
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