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No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

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Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#51

Post by kasey_junk »

yanilkr wrote: post #45

Rock stars are good at what they do and most of the time earn that label. Don't form a gang and hurt productivity of your team/company. If someone is working hard to earn a rockstar label don't penalize them. You will probably need rock stars and plumbers getting along well. If someone is a bad employee rockstar or otherwise that needs to be dealt properly.

I'd say my biggest complaint about the term "rock star" is that its nonstandard. This article uses a definition, which describes a set of people I know in tech communities. Your comment is probably referring to something else.

Regardless, the article is spot on in describing what to do to produce healthy environments, whereas most uses of the term rock star that I've found come from unhealthy ones.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#53

Post by super_id »

Saturnaut wrote: post #27

Don't sleep with people you work with. Don't drink if you can't control yourself or can't trust the people you are with. Don't do drugs if you can't control yourself or trust the people you are with. Problem solved!

Never don't be sensitive!

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#54

Post by tptacek »

exstudent2 wrote: post #35
jondubois wrote: post #29

I'm really glad that someone is raising this issue. This 'rock star worship' culture is rampant in Open Source communities. What's worse is that many of these 'rock stars' don't do anything except blog and give talks at conferences - Their main goal is self-promotion. They don't give a shit about the actual project or the community. You rarely hear about open source developers who focus on one project and produce ama…

That's a separate issue from saying that rockstar syndrome leads to sexual abuse though. It's not really fair to use a boogieman like that to make the case against rockstar worship. If it's a bad idea, it can be argued against without the rhetorical leap made here.

One problem with rockstarism is that it can create safe havens for abusers. But there are all sorts of other concerns. I'm surprised to see people defending it here; HN has always struck me as a community that is pretty cynical about rock stars.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#55

Post by Saturnaut »

prawn wrote: post #50
Saturnaut wrote: post #27

Don't sleep with people you work with. Don't drink if you can't control yourself or can't trust the people you are with. Don't do drugs if you can't control yourself or trust the people you are with. Problem solved!

Wow, that's hugely insensitive. Why not try it from another angle and save on typing: "Don't abuse people. Problem solved!"

Well I agree with that statement as well. However, it never hurts to take preventative measures in one's own life, instead of letting yourself get screwed over and then wondering why it happened and who to blame.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#56

Post by yawaramin »

chris_7 wrote: post #22

This one: Avoid organizations becoming too central to people’s lives Seems at odds with this one: Enforce strict policies around sexual or romantic relationships within power structures Due to the use of the terms "organization" and "community" instead of "company" or an equivalent, it's unclear if they are referring entirely to employment (where such a prohibition would be pretty common and mundane), or if they are…

I think it makes sense if you interpret it as having rules against seeing someone if you're in a position of power over them. If you happen to be in same organisation but have no power over them, there isn't a conflict.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#57

Post by tptacek »

ktRolster wrote: post #31
matthewmacleod wrote: post #6

There should be no abuse - sexual or otherwise - in tech communities. Please call it out whenever you see it, in a polite but firm manner, and don't be afraid or intimidated by it. The vast majority of people will support you, and it's important to do so not only for your own protection but for others that might not be so willing or able to do the same. That said, something about the tone of this blog post is utterly…

That said, something about the tone of this blog post is utterly repellent to me and I'm struggling to put my finger on the reason why. To me the dissonance came from an unusual definition of the word "rockstar." In the programming context, I've usually heard it as "someone who is really good at programming," but here they are trying to define it as "someone who pretends to be good at programming and harasses everyon…

This post is using "rock star" in a far more conventional sense than programmers do. To these authors, a "rock star" personality is someone who receives frequent media attention, who is given numerous slots to speak at conferences, and who cultivates an active fandom. It happens that most of these people don't do much real work, but "not doing real work" probably isn't as central to the definition as those other things are.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#58

Post by prawn »

said wrote: post #49
ksenzee wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember, this is aimed at employers and open-source projects, not the justice system. Besides, what alternative are you suggesting? Start with the assumption that harassment reports are false, and throw them in the trash?

Somewhere in between. For example: We recognize that false reports are very unlikely, but we also recognize there is currently an enormous social bonus awarded to victims of harassment, particularly female victims. Let's examine all the facts, and even if we can't gather enough evidence to take any action, we'll keep a record of this report for any future incidents.

What social bonus is awarded to victims enough to justify speaking out? I'd say any negatives greatly outweigh the attention they might receive. Countless victims never come forward for good reason.

If any corporation used your suggestion as an official statement including the "but we also" segment, they'd be thrashed mercilessly in the media, and for good reason.

Why not just start with: "All complaints will be investigated, and regardless of outcome, records will be kept for future reference."

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#59

Post by dmitrygr »

ksenzee wrote: post #13
tenementfunster wrote: post #9

'Start with the assumption that harassment reports are true and investigate them thoroughly' Sorry, what? We have this whole ideal of "innocent until proven guilty" in America (and many other places) so you can kindly take this nonsense elsewhere.

Remember, this is aimed at employers and open-source projects, not the justice system. Besides, what alternative are you suggesting? Start with the assumption that harassment reports are false, and throw them in the trash?

Um, investigate them impartially?

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#60

Post by spriggan3 »

adiabatty wrote: post #30
matthewmacleod wrote: post #6

There should be no abuse - sexual or otherwise - in tech communities. Please call it out whenever you see it, in a polite but firm manner, and don't be afraid or intimidated by it. The vast majority of people will support you, and it's important to do so not only for your own protection but for others that might not be so willing or able to do the same. That said, something about the tone of this blog post is utterly…

There's a weak undercurrent of condescension in the post (I've seen worse from Model View Culture); you may be picking up on that. I'm more interested in the un(der)examined assertion that, when it comes to accusations of sexual misconduct, the accused should have a presumption of guilt . Have there been any published arguments in favor of this?

> the accused should have a presumption of guilt

That may be how social media work, that's absolutely not how justice should work. Anybody can be accused of sexual misconduct on social media. It's not justice when one can't defend himself.

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