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Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

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Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#191

Post by ergothus »

downandout wrote: post #134
ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

>Decent imitations of highly processed meat exist already I am a meat eater and I can tell you that, in my experience, this simply isn't the case. Your opinion is colored by the fact that you really, really, want it to be a decent imitation because you're a vegetarian. Every imitation meat product I have ever tasted has been immediately recognizable as such, and was almost inedible. Unfortunately, the idea of fake me…

...I'm going to have to go with the meat eaters that ARE fooled by the meat alternatives and found them quite (note I mentioned it is a decent imitation of "highly processed meat", not "quality" meat) vs your lone opinion of my burning desire to be normal.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#192

Post by ajmurmann »

snuxoll wrote: post #130
matt4077 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in Africa chicken isn't regarded as meat, to give one example from my own experience. In western countries, there's some ambiguity around eggs, fish, and possibly lard but only as far as vegetarians can't all agree on those either.

Even as a meat eater I don't eat fish unless I caught it myself. Commercial fishing has gotten out of control and I refuse to contribute to the practice, as well as the shocking frequency that fish are mislabeled.

This is such a huge gripe for me. I love fish but hate the industry. In fact I wish we could have a 5 year moratorium on any fishing. Fishing is the best example for the tragedy of the commons.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#193

Post by zem »

athenot wrote: post #143
downandout wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Decent imitations of highly processed meat exist already I am a meat eater and I can tell you that, in my experience, this simply isn't the case. Your opinion is colored by the fact that you really, really, want it to be a decent imitation because you're a vegetarian. Every imitation meat product I have ever tasted has been immediately recognizable as such, and was almost inedible. Unfortunately, the idea of fake me…

I'm also an omnivore and have made the same observation. I think the larger issue is why do we stubbornly try to make one thing taste like another? I may be a meat-eater but I can fill my heart's content at a number of Indian vegetarian places, to the point where I don't realize I didn't eat meat. The meal as a whole is fully satiating and nourishing. In the same vein, I love tofu when it tastes like tofu. But when s…

> why do we stubbornly try to make one thing taste like another

because lots of people love meat but dislike the way it is obtained. compare fake cheese and icecream for the lactose intolerant - they love the taste of cheese and icecream, just not its effects on them.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#194

Post by kbenson »

ergothus wrote: post #69
sevenless wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One potential problem: the heme that they're claiming gives it flavor comes from a genetically modified yeast. It's a GMO, and people who're vegan on principle often don't like that.

That actually ties into an interesting problem: People who are vegetarian/vegan for ethical reasons and lab-grown meat. One idea is, instead of trying to make plant-based food taste like meat, just make meat that doesn't involve raising and killing animals. Efforts thus far have had only mild success (IIRC, it's been done at great cost, and it reportedly tasted terrible). Assuming these efforts succeed, where does th…

> Efforts thus far have had only mild success (IIRC, it's been done at great cost, and it reportedly tasted terrible).

I have so much hope for this. I'm not vegetarian, but I wouldn't mind cutting out animal cruelty from my life as much as possible, as it is a place I recognize cognitive dissonance in myself. I'm really hoping they can get the cost down, and since it's controlled, can start experimenting on ways to improve taste (artificial stimulation, etc). I see no reason why we can't eventually grow meat that tastes multiples better. It's not like nature selected for pigs and cows to taste good (although we may have, over the last few hundreds or thousands of years).

> Assuming these efforts succeed, where does that leave me?

Hopefully, it means you'll eventually be eating the best burger you've ever tasted. :)

> at what point is it morally acceptable to me to buy and eat that "meat"?

I would assume immediately at the point there's a version that doesn't harm animals, if you're in it for ethical reasons. I'm not sure I understand the question, or the implications, because it doesn't seem controversial to me at all, given the predicates.

> I imagine it's similar to anyone in a field that benefits from ethically questionable research.

I'm not sure it's related at all. What animals are harmed to help us get better lab-grown meat?

That said, questionable research it's a very interesting question in itself. I've been culturally indoctrinated to belief that it's bad, but rationally, if the resaerch leads to improved lives for people during the time we would not know that information until we found it otherwise, shouldn't we weigh that correctly? Would a study that resulted in the death of 1000 people but eliminated heart disease be worth it? Yes, but we can't know what any specific research will result in, so all we do is increase the risk of our gambles with the hope of a bigger payoff.

That said, I think we need more nuanced rules regarding some studies and people that want in them. If someone is already terminally ill, but it shouldn't affect the study, I don't see the problem with a large payout to participate in a very dangerous study.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#195

Post by VLM »

downandout wrote: post #134
ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

>Decent imitations of highly processed meat exist already I am a meat eater and I can tell you that, in my experience, this simply isn't the case. Your opinion is colored by the fact that you really, really, want it to be a decent imitation because you're a vegetarian. Every imitation meat product I have ever tasted has been immediately recognizable as such, and was almost inedible. Unfortunately, the idea of fake me…

With all due respect we can agree on your factual observations, yet while you're pessimistic about replacing a top quality perfectly grilled London Broil steak, I'm feeling optimistic about replacing a mcdonalds hamburger, which also is immediately recognizable as almost inedible.

How about that stick of beef jerky I carry when I go out hiking ... replacing something that artificial with something plant based doesn't sound overly challenging and maybe it would have better shelf life? Or the mystery meat in canned store bought soups?

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#196

Post by Manishearth »

walrus01 wrote: post #113
wavefunction wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I visit India and eat vegetarian food properly prepared by a culture that has refined vegetarian cuisine beyond "fake meat", I don't miss meat at all. Much of Western food is only expected to be an accompaniment to a meat dish, which is why you can't just cut meat out and eat the vegetable dishes you're used to when you're eating meat as well, imnsho.

As much as I enjoy Indian vegetarian food, as a person that does eat meat, there are also a bewildering variety of dishes possible with the same spices and ingredients with meat added. One example is what you can find in Pakistani cuisine where the vast majority of the population is Muslim and does eat meat. There is of course a great deal of culinary overlap in the Punjab region, food is much older than the 1947 par…

Oh, nonvegetarian food from the subcontinent can be amazing. Even from Hindu-majority areas -- Indian (or even Hindu) vegetarians are the minority (30%), just a generally affluent and vocal minority. Aside from beef, of course.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#197

Post by PerfectElement »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #64
MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of the set of mean eaters who this market would target, I really think the subset that thinks about or considers omega 3 and CLA in their meat is minuscule. I'm a very health conscious omnivore and honestly didn't even know there were omega 3s in beef. Guess that's another excuse for me to eat hamburgers...

Omega3 - Omega 6 ratio in fats (more omega 3 is better) may be healthier. It seems that grass fed beef has better ratios http://www.mercola.com/beef/health_benefits.htm I'm regularly surprised by how little the average person knows about the things that make/keep them healthy. If I really wanted a car to last I'd be sure I knew all about the gasoline and oil I was putting into it.

There is always a link to Dr. Mercola's articles when people try to defend the health benefits of eating meat, but no one mentions that is an anti-vaxxer and has many other unscientific claims on his website.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#198

Post by vanattab »

munificent wrote: post #140
bradbeattie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the same camp as you. Vegetarian since 1989, vegan since 1999. I can certainly say that the quality of fake meats has drastically improved in the past 10 years (see https://gardein.com/ , http://fieldroast.com/ , and http://beyondmeat.com/ as examples), but the stigma surrounding them persists. Short anecdote: There's a donut shop in my town that sold vegan and regular donuts in adjacent but separate displays.…

I think the problem here is that "vegan" is used to describe two different things: 1. A product that has been changed to not use any animal products. 2. A product that already fits within those constraints. Products in the former group have a history of being noticeably worse than their non-vegan counterpart, so "vegan" carries the stigma of "tastes worse than it looks". That stigma then wafts over to products in the…

>Other categories of products are more careful to use distinct terms. That's why you see things labelled "naturally fat-free" instead of just "fat-free", for example.

Are you sure marketing didn't just want to include another buzz word to attract sales? 90% of the food that got labeled fat-free 10 years ago (Before fat was good again...) was always fat free.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#199

Post by Declanomous »

zem wrote: post #193
athenot wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also an omnivore and have made the same observation. I think the larger issue is why do we stubbornly try to make one thing taste like another? I may be a meat-eater but I can fill my heart's content at a number of Indian vegetarian places, to the point where I don't realize I didn't eat meat. The meal as a whole is fully satiating and nourishing. In the same vein, I love tofu when it tastes like tofu. But when s…

> why do we stubbornly try to make one thing taste like another because lots of people love meat but dislike the way it is obtained. compare fake cheese and icecream for the lactose intolerant - they love the taste of cheese and icecream, just not its effects on them.

Cheese and ice cream for the lactose intolerant are the same as normal cheese and ice cream, just with the lactose removed.

Vegan cheese is completely different from lactose-free cheese, and is one of the worst things I have ever eaten. It does not retain a single attribute that makes normal cheese appealing, but still manages to smell like an old sock.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#200

Post by hardran3 »

asciimo wrote: post #121
maerF0x0 wrote: post #16

IMO they need to not only replicate flavor, but also macro nutrient profiles and a few other things like omega3s and CLA found in grass fed beef. I think we're better off cleaning up the meat industry than trying to make plants into meat. Fixing things like CAFOs and our corn subsidies could go a long way to a more sustainable meat.

Animals don't synthesize nutritious substances that you can't get out of plants. They are inefficient filters.

Animals absolutely do synthesize nutritious substances that you can't get out of plants. For instance humans, as long as we ingest the 9 essential amino acids, can create from scratch any protein our body needs. Our bodies are also capable of turning protein and fat into carbohydrates when needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis).

Animals, us included, are not inefficient filters, or tanks that hold minerals and energy. We are chemistry sets designed for survival in a wide range of conditions.

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