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“PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

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Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#281

Post by gabhubert »

lucaspiller wrote: post #217
ams6110 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I used Stripe it was directly connected to a bank account. They would sit on funds for a couple of days I guess this was to allow the transaction to clear whatever batch cycles happen behind the scenes (debits cards were typically faster than credit charges) but the deposits came directly into the account. Has that changed?

I think it varies by country. Also Stripe isn't available in nearly as many markets as PayPal, two big ones that immediately pop out are Estonia and Hong Kong. Another thing to bear in mind is lots of people outside the "main Western" countries (for lack of a better term) still don't have credit or debit cards that can be used to pay online. PayPal accepts a lot of local payment methods and even lets you transfer fun…

fwiw, HK is in private beta: https://stripe.com/global

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#282

Post by patrickg_zill »

cynicalkane wrote: post #277
mcherm wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call BS on that. It is true that banks will go a long way to try to satisfy banking regulators. But unless you have some evidence I am simply unwilling to believe that banking regulators can make up any restrictions they like without regard for the actual requirements of federal law.

The law is very complicated, but it generally gives regulators that actual power. They can make demands to specific banks. They can even make demands to specific banking systems; like, a regulator can go to a bank and say "You need to make your AML system do Y instead of X." And the bank has to do it or they end up like HSBC. In fact, that was exactly why HSBC was fined billions. Regulators told them to do specific t…

Are you sure that is "all" that HSBC did? Your explanation seems very simplified.

e.g. from https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/dec/14/hsbc-money-...

"In some branches the boxes of cash being deposited were so big the tellers' windows had to be enlarged."

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#283

Post by Strom »

scrollaway wrote: post #233
thirdsun wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a german that's not my experience at all. Credit cards aren't that common here and SEPA transfers are slow as hell and always a minor hassle, that I tend to avoid as long as I can. Without Paypal a lot of european customers wouldn't be able to buy from international vendors.

I'd like to recommend the bank Number26. They're german and operate across most of europe. https://number26.eu/ Seriously , if you're european, try these guys out - they're worth it.

You saying that they operate across most of europe and if you're european, try these guys out. Then their own site having lines like Your bank account just as mobile as you are. and Banking everywhere made me think for a moment that they may actually offer their services across Europe.

Not the case. Digging deeper [1] we can find this: The only conditions are that you're at least 18 years old and have a residential address in Germany or Austria.

[1] https://number26.eu/bank-account/

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#284

Post by 794CD01 »

Draiken wrote: post #268
794CD01 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accept payment in cash only. Oh, now you want to say that these vendors were providing you an important service after all? Hmm, how interesting.

Yes, they do provide a good service. But they're still a "duopoly" (is that a thing?) as far as I know. Can't even think on who's the third most used credit card provider. As always with lack of competition all of these institutions are free to do as they wish. Specially since they deal with money, that can be (and often is) used for lobbying. But I'm a pessimist, and these are just my 2 cents Maybe it's all in my he…

As you don't know whether Discover or Amex is bigger? Why does that matter? And Paypal is not a credit card. You can link it directly to your bank account and pay with it as the transaction processor. That's a big part of why it's so popular. Might as well complain about bitcoins.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#285

Post by sisk »

contingencies wrote: post #221

Had to use Paypal today to make a payment to a company who can't otherwise find a reasonable way to take credit cards online. I feel their pain, having been in that position. Paypal randomly saw that it was reasonable to demand I answer a phone in another country (though I haven't been based there for perhaps 15 years) if I wanted to log in to my account. I had to work around this by having them send a payment reques…

Am I misinterpreting something? It sounds like you're upset with PayPal because you tried to make a payment from a country other than the one on record (which trips every fraud detection out there) and that they tried to contact you for verification with the number they had on file which you haven't updated in 15 years. That sounds like reasonable behavior from their end.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#286

Post by xavier9050 »

Compliance Officer in financial sector in Luxembourg here. The request you have received is related to anti money laundering regulations. As you guys seem to be based in Germany. So bear in mind that PayPal operates across the European Union as a Luxembourg-based bank. Anti-money laundering regulation is typically stricter in Lux than in the USA. The Lux regulator is the "CSSF", and you can find the detail of the regulation here: http://www.cssf.lu/en/supervision/financial-crime/aml-ctf/la...

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#287

Post by djsumdog »

cm2187 wrote: post #56
josteink wrote: post #3

> PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as all our customers’ files for illegal content. They have also asked us to provide them with detailed statistics about the files types of our customers sync and share on https://app.seafile.de That's a pretty big WTF right there. I know PayPal has a on overall pretty scummy reputation, but I still I cannot imagine PayPal doing this because they themselves th…

Welcome to the world of financial regulations! You may have not realised but banks and any financial institutions have been deputised by the regulators to be the financial police. They need to ensure that none of their client use financial services to commit crimes or launder the proceeds of a crime, under the penalty of heavy (up to multi billions) fines. Particularly in the US. I am pretty sure this is what is forc…

Crimes. Yes.

But payday loan companies and credit cards that charge 29% interest plus hundreds of dollars in feeds to "help people with poor credit" are fine.

Supporting US government entities in defense that kill tons of innocent people every day; that's fine too.

Self regulating? Man that works so well, especially in 2008. We're going to let you keep doing that too.

Weed stores in states where it's legal? Hi it's the DEA. We're confiscating these accounts for you. Here's a fine (at least until later this year, but still only for medicinal marijuana)

It's a cluster fuck of bullshit. Of course you can always use a different payment provider, but with PayPal being just so damn easy with very little competition, it's like saying if Amazon removed your eBook, just publish it somewhere else. The trouble is the distribution networks are so big that they become the only means of distribution. If you control 90% of the market and shut down a DropBox competitor, you're choosing which companies succeed.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#288

Post by Strom »

tobltobs wrote: post #166
vidarh wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the vast majority (99%+ of non-card Euro transactions, and a substantial majority of card Euro transactions too) going via SEPA in Europe these days, the benefit of Paypal is much reduced. It is competing much more with card payments these days than with direct transfers, given the combination of SEPA and even faster local schemes (e.g. in the UK, a huge proportion of smaller charges go via Faster Payments, whic…

If you would use SEPA for an SAAS registration, how would you handle the waiting time of multiple days? Accept the customer without prove of payment or ask him to come back in a few days?

For SaaS it's easy, you just treat the payment as a success. If it ends up failing, you treat it as a chargeback.

For selling goods that you hand over (e.g. irrevocable product keys) it's much trickier and depends on the specific business whether it makes sense to have the customer wait.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#289

Post by [deleted] »

makecheck wrote: post #276
MichaelBurge wrote: post #11

File sharing services are listed as requiring pre-approval, so Seafile should've sent them an email before accepting it as payment: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full They're well within their rights to decline your business. If a bank told the government, "We have no absolutely no idea what our customers are doing with their money or who they're sending it to. Maybe they're sending it to ter…

Why should banks expect to be shut down over that? Suppose I build a road. I would also have no idea what people are transporting on that road: maybe they’re moving drugs or sending stuff to terrorists, as you say. And it would be absolutely ludicrous to hold the road-builder in any way responsible for activities on the road. At some point, a service is just a service and it should remain firmly bounded. Yes, bad peo…

[deleted]

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#290

Post by Draiken »

794CD01 wrote: post #284
Draiken wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they do provide a good service. But they're still a "duopoly" (is that a thing?) as far as I know. Can't even think on who's the third most used credit card provider. As always with lack of competition all of these institutions are free to do as they wish. Specially since they deal with money, that can be (and often is) used for lobbying. But I'm a pessimist, and these are just my 2 cents Maybe it's all in my he…

As you don't know whether Discover or Amex is bigger? Why does that matter? And Paypal is not a credit card. You can link it directly to your bank account and pay with it as the transaction processor. That's a big part of why it's so popular. Might as well complain about bitcoins.

Sorry I don't understand the point of your answer.

I've mentioned multiple times "financial institutions", which include banks and paypal in my book.

Bitcoins are amazing. Just not there yet. I can't give a credit card of bitcoins for my wife to buy groceries :)

But that's off-topic.

You clearly just want to disagree and that's fine, but please bring arguments instead of weird accusations of bitcoin hatred

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