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“But he does good work.”

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Re: “But he does good work.”

#31
post #8

I disagree with the black and white view of morality that the article espouses. If people do something wrong, they should be punished, but banning them from community entirely seems a little medieval to me. People are human, and sometimes they are complicated, and can do good and bad at the same time.

So you're literally saying "but he does good work"?

I hope you appreciate the irony.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#32
post #8

I disagree with the black and white view of morality that the article espouses. If people do something wrong, they should be punished, but banning them from community entirely seems a little medieval to me. People are human, and sometimes they are complicated, and can do good and bad at the same time.

She's calling out his employer for not firing him when he was known to sexually harass employees. It's black and white because it's clear as day. Don't keep rapists on your staff, you're making your workplace unsafe for other employees.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#33
our cultural environment gives us a bias toward downplaying the problem of rape and sexual harassment. i've found this thought experiment helpful in exploring bias:

rape is torture. for some it is worse than murder.

sexual harassment is aggression. for some it is worse than being punched in the face.

how would you feel if someone at your work murdered or punched someone else?

how would you feel if there was a systemic cultural inequity such that 1 in 3 people could expect to be murdered or punched at some point in their life?

ps - the opposite of rape (bully) culture is nurturance (support) culture.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Common as hell though. Not only do I know many who've explicitly told me about such attacks, but basic statistics indicates that many people we know have been attacked, regardless of them telling us. (Of course people often don't speak up when attacked, because the rest of us are generally complicit in maintaining that culture, for example shaming or silencing targets.)

Has anyone actually put their real name on something saying they were personally attacked by him yet? Last I checked everything was just vague accusations, has this changed?

My housemate dated him for a while. It's pretty much all true.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#35
Everyone who advocates for codes of conduct needs to have a hard look at the Appelbaum story and answer cogently how a code of conduct would have defended against Jacob Appelbaum. That's the great weakness, they do not work at all against anyone in an elevated social position.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree with the black and white view of morality that the article espouses. What on earth are you talking about? > If people do something wrong, they should be punished, but banning them from community entirely seems a little medieval to me. He should be in jail, there's nothing medieval about separating a rapist from the community. Anyone who introduces people to you by lying and saying you give good head in a…

It depends on you worldview, if you find extrajudicial mob justice acceptable or if you believe in rule of law.

Extrajudicial mob justice is killing someone who you think is a murderer.

Firing someone because of their behavior does not require a court of law (though they can challenge it in court). Banning someone from a community function does not require a trial, nor should it.

If you act like an asshole, don't be surprised if people don't want to be around you. That part of the situation is not a matter for the courts. The rape, however, is a matter for the courts.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#37

If a guy like this were to get a legitimate psychiatric diagnosis, what do you suppose it'd be? Not that I feel bad for the guy, mind you, rather I feel it'd be helpful to the community of people who have been affected by this kind of behavior to have an accurate name for it other than just saying the guy is a douchebag. I knew a guy in college who had some aspects of this guy's behavior and was diagnosed with narcis…

It is generally considered inappropriate for a mental health practitioner to offer a diagnosis without formally seeing the patient in question, so I doubt that someone who has the knowledge to make an assessment would take the leap and breach protocol. It would surely be interesting though.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#38
A blog is no substitute for due process. Appelbaum may be guilty of all of the things he's been accused of, he may be guilty of none of them. Let's see some formal charges, sworn witness statements and court proceedings before we decide. False accusations can and do happen all the time.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#39
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree with the black and white view of morality that the article espouses. What on earth are you talking about? > If people do something wrong, they should be punished, but banning them from community entirely seems a little medieval to me. He should be in jail, there's nothing medieval about separating a rapist from the community. Anyone who introduces people to you by lying and saying you give good head in a…

"He should be in jail, there's nothing medieval about separating a rapist from the community." Has he been convicted of rape, or is an article on the internet good enough evidence for you? There is a good reason we have courts a justice system.

There's more than enough evidence for him to have been fired "in that article alone"; of course a rape charge would have to be prosecuted, my saying he should be in jail doesn't mean "without due process". Firing someone however requires no due process, several women complaining about harassment is more than enough.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#40

If a guy like this were to get a legitimate psychiatric diagnosis, what do you suppose it'd be? Not that I feel bad for the guy, mind you, rather I feel it'd be helpful to the community of people who have been affected by this kind of behavior to have an accurate name for it other than just saying the guy is a douchebag. I knew a guy in college who had some aspects of this guy's behavior and was diagnosed with narcis…

There's a whole spectrum of personality disorders, including narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder (aka sociopathy). Any of these and maybe others could be diagnosed. Or maybe none and this guy (based on the alleged behaviors) is just a terrible person with no diagnosable disorder.
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