Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“But he does good work.”

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 289 posts

Re: “But he does good work.”

#21

Post by arenaninja »

kendallpark wrote: post #2

This one of the most disturbing pieces I've read on this topic. Disgusting. "When harassment, sexual or otherwise, requires a cost-benefit analysis, you have failed."

> "When harassment, sexual or otherwise, requires a cost-benefit analysis, you have failed."

I don't really agree with the quote. Harassment can be too loosely defined.

> "It was a close call as to whether his benefits outweighed his liabilities."

I disagree with this one more strongly though. I mean from the author's writing, this guy was off-the-charts.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#22

Post by tehrei »

gooseyard wrote: post #12

If a guy like this were to get a legitimate psychiatric diagnosis, what do you suppose it'd be? Not that I feel bad for the guy, mind you, rather I feel it'd be helpful to the community of people who have been affected by this kind of behavior to have an accurate name for it other than just saying the guy is a douchebag. I knew a guy in college who had some aspects of this guy's behavior and was diagnosed with narcis…

It isn't really a disorder, it's just a kind of personality. It's pretty much par for the course of simply being human. A good shrink should be able to get him to function with people who don't see things as the does, but there isn't anything wrong with him per se.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#23

Post by serg_chernata »

I am completely on her side and this dude seems sketchy.

However, Macrina's story mentioned in a different article[0] sounded very very strange to me. I simply don't understand how Macrina, a working professional adult, can follow that kind of logic. To me it simply sounds like she made a mistake and now regrets it.

[0] - http://gizmodo.com/another-woman-has-accused-jacob-appelbaum...

Re: “But he does good work.”

#24

Post by andrewvc »

js8 wrote: post #8

I disagree with the black and white view of morality that the article espouses. If people do something wrong, they should be punished, but banning them from community entirely seems a little medieval to me. People are human, and sometimes they are complicated, and can do good and bad at the same time.

If someone repeatedly raped and made inappropriate sexual comments about your family members banning them from family events would be considered about the mildest thing you could do.

This guy should be in prison for rape. But even disregarding the actual illegal things this guy has done, his other behavior alone disqualifies him from interacting with others in the community, esp. as a community leader.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#25

Post by mfoy_ »

ultramancool wrote: post #9
calibraxis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Common as hell though. Not only do I know many who've explicitly told me about such attacks, but basic statistics indicates that many people we know have been attacked, regardless of them telling us. (Of course people often don't speak up when attacked, because the rest of us are generally complicit in maintaining that culture, for example shaming or silencing targets.)

Has anyone actually put their real name on something saying they were personally attacked by him yet? Last I checked everything was just vague accusations, has this changed?

Even putting aside whether he is a literal rapist or not, it sounds like he is blatantly guilty of being a serial sexual harasser. The examples of public behaviour he is noted for in the article are completely beyond the pale.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#26

Post by gnaritas »

TheGirondin wrote: post #17
gnaritas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree with the black and white view of morality that the article espouses. What on earth are you talking about? > If people do something wrong, they should be punished, but banning them from community entirely seems a little medieval to me. He should be in jail, there's nothing medieval about separating a rapist from the community. Anyone who introduces people to you by lying and saying you give good head in a…

It depends on you worldview, if you find extrajudicial mob justice acceptable or if you believe in rule of law.

Firing someone for inappropriate abusive behavior is not remotely mob justice. Mob justice would be dragging him into a back alley and cutting his balls off. Do you see the difference? I'm guessing you don't since you're repeating your "mob justice" comment several times over.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#27

Post by wiredfool »

ultramancool wrote: post #20
camiller wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This paragraph from the article: "More witnesses and stories have surfaced since. These include Bill Budington of the EFF, Micah Lee of the Intercept, Nick Farr, Quinn Norton, Leigh Honeywell, Alison Macrina, Andrea Shepard, Meredith Patterson, and Isis Agora Lovecruft."

Yes, but unless I'm mistaken, none of those people have publicly put their name on a rape accusation.

This seems to meet the definition of attacked:

   The convincing turned into trying to pull her away   
   physically, grabbing at her hands. I locked my arm with
   hers, and put myself in between her and Jake. All while he
   was trying to reach around me, while he was telling me to
   let go.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#28

Post by collyw »

gnaritas wrote: post #11
js8 wrote: post #8

I disagree with the black and white view of morality that the article espouses. If people do something wrong, they should be punished, but banning them from community entirely seems a little medieval to me. People are human, and sometimes they are complicated, and can do good and bad at the same time.

> I disagree with the black and white view of morality that the article espouses. What on earth are you talking about? > If people do something wrong, they should be punished, but banning them from community entirely seems a little medieval to me. He should be in jail, there's nothing medieval about separating a rapist from the community. Anyone who introduces people to you by lying and saying you give good head in a…

"He should be in jail, there's nothing medieval about separating a rapist from the community."

Has he been convicted of rape, or is an article on the internet good enough evidence for you? There is a good reason we have courts a justice system.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#29

Post by tehrei »

kendallpark wrote: post #2

This one of the most disturbing pieces I've read on this topic. Disgusting. "When harassment, sexual or otherwise, requires a cost-benefit analysis, you have failed."

Repeat after me: companies are not people. Everything is a cost-benefit analysis. Do we poison the river and give an entire town of couple of thousand people premature cancer or do we put the waste in barrels and bury them in a safe manner? If the fine is less than the cost of the barrels, they'll dump it in the river.

Re: “But he does good work.”

#30

Post by ultramancool »

wiredfool wrote: post #27
ultramancool wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but unless I'm mistaken, none of those people have publicly put their name on a rape accusation.

This seems to meet the definition of attacked: The convincing turned into trying to pull her away physically, grabbing at her hands. I locked my arm with hers, and put myself in between her and Jake. All while he was trying to reach around me, while he was telling me to let go.

Not raped though, which is what I was trying to get at. Sorry if I was vague. You're right, the evidence of many other incidents is indeed there.
Post reply on HN