Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 100 posts

Re: Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

#51

Post by srtjstjsj »

cperciva wrote: post #7
tn13 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What she wants to do is her business. If she wants to use an app or a voodoo magician for health I frankly think it is no body's business to tell her otherwise. Even third world countries have birth control off the shelf.

That's the strict Libertarian view, yes. The consensus among medical ethicists, however, is that medical professionals have a duty to avoid allowing patients to come to harm, and that this duty takes priority even over the patient's wishes; wanting to cut your arm off may be your own business, but you won't find a surgeon offering to sell you tools for that purpose.

The consensus among medical ethicists is that medical professionals have a pretty bad track record of treating womens' health issues. The (over-)medicalization of childbirth, for example, has had a notable impact.

Re: Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

#52

Post by ggggtez »

sokoloff wrote: post #37
drumdance wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birth control, unlike marijuana, has no recreational use.

As an engineer, I would argue that birth control's primary use is recreational.

Don't forget the secondary health benefits, such as reducing menstruary symptoms, which for some women is very uncomfortable.

Re: Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

#53

Post by themartorana »

Zak wrote: post #47
cperciva wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I'm quite happy with online pharmacies and telemedicine as separate concepts; it's the conflict of interest inherent in "we'll refer you to a doctor who will give you a prescription so that we can sell you these pills" which concerns me.

This is very different from the concern you expressed in your toplevel comment. A doctor having a profit motive to write prescriptions could very well conflict with their ethical obligation to recommend alternatives where medically appropriate. On the other hand, it's my impression that most of the medicines people obtain this way - specifically contraceptives and erectile dysfunction treatments - are straightforward…

But regular doctors in non-virtual offices have all kinds of incentives dropped on them to prescribe certain medicine. "Separating" the two hardly does away with incentivized prescription writing.

Re: Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

#54

Post by themartorana »

ggggtez wrote: post #52
sokoloff wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an engineer, I would argue that birth control's primary use is recreational.

Don't forget the secondary health benefits, such as reducing menstruary symptoms, which for some women is very uncomfortable.

That's quite often the primary, not the secondary. Protecting against unwanted pregnancy is a nice side-effect of the medicine prescribed to help control literally debilitating menstrual cycles.

Re: Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

#55

Post by JoBrad »

tcj_phx wrote: post #2

There is a problem with birth control that the media doesn't like to talk about. While millions of women take birth control, almost all of them eventually (or immediately) hate the side effects. So most women take these awful drugs only because they are seen as the best way to prevent pregnancy. Cruising over to reddit's /r/birthcontrol now, this submission was from 16 hours ago: > So because I was losing hair after…

> Almost all of them eventually (or immediately) hate the side effects

Any source on this? My wife took birth control because of ovarian cysts. She had issues with the first few types, but we eventually found one that has worked for nearly a decade, with no issues. I know of several other women with this same experience. Reddit (or any other forum used for complaints) is hardly a good example to support this.

Re: Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

#56

Post by themartorana »

kaitai wrote: post #32
cperciva wrote: post #3

she used the app Nurx for birth control because she felt uncomfortable visiting a doctor Frankly, this terrifies me. Getting medication which is generally accepted to be mostly safe from a pharmacy because it's cheaper and more convenient than seeing a doctor, sure. But if you're not comfortable seeing a doctor... you should probably be seeing a doctor.

A lot of people have had bad experiences with doctors, and in particular sometimes bad experiences around discussing sex and sexuality with doctors. Teenage girls trying to get birth control are told they are irresponsible or are sluts; parents get involved and send mixed messages regarding relationships with health care providers; and docs can cause a lot of trouble when they're not well-educated about things like e…

These, by the way, are the experiences that make it difficult for men to have any empathy (even if they're open to it) with the actual experience of dealing with sexual health for women.

Re: Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

#57

Post by ch4s3 »

criley2 wrote: post #27
cperciva wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are technically seeing a doctor Sure, and "medical marijuana" dispensaries technically require that you get diagnosed with something which marijuana can be used to treat. When doctors are being paid by a company which sells the product they're prescribing, I lack confidence in their ability to render medical opinions in the patients' best interest.

Hey, no, ok, I work in the medical software field (EHR provider who has a number of telehealth options) and the comparison of telemedicine to a dispensary or a pill mill is offensive and ignorant. Telehealth is extremely effective in a number of cases, generally with the elderly and those with anxiety issues. It's very very cost effective, provides some of the best clinical data on patients empowering better diagnosi…

Do you work in Verona by any chance? I didn't realize you folks did so much in telehealth. Is Telepsych new?

Re: Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

#58

Post by feld »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #10
tcj_phx wrote: post #2

There is a problem with birth control that the media doesn't like to talk about. While millions of women take birth control, almost all of them eventually (or immediately) hate the side effects. So most women take these awful drugs only because they are seen as the best way to prevent pregnancy. Cruising over to reddit's /r/birthcontrol now, this submission was from 16 hours ago: > So because I was losing hair after…

Hundreds of millions also take those without negative side-effects.

My wife has had issues with almost everything she's been on. The only thing remotely acceptable to her has been the depo shot but she still had to deal with migraines, mood swings, considerable weight gain, and body hair. I finally said enough is enough and took the high road: I apologized for the last decade she accepted as "normal human life" and requested her to stop her contraceptives immediately. I called up the doctor and demanded a vasectomy. Problem solved. She's much happier now.

edit: the number of side effects for some of these female contraceptives are staggering and many women aren't aware of the entire scope of possibilities. I suspect most women are affected and don't realize it, just accepting it as normal because their friends have the same issues.

Re: Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

#59

Post by fiatmoney »

"Birth control" is ridiculously available. "Hormonal birth control" can have serious side effects and interactions, at least at the level of something like tylenol-fortified opiods or mild antidepressants, to say nothing of any net public-health effects (even after you account for "unwanted pregnancies"). Hell, testosterone, the direct analog, is Schedule III.

But some people have a political interest in promoting infertility, so quasi-OTC it goes.

Re: Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

#60

Post by cperciva »

Zak wrote: post #47
cperciva wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I'm quite happy with online pharmacies and telemedicine as separate concepts; it's the conflict of interest inherent in "we'll refer you to a doctor who will give you a prescription so that we can sell you these pills" which concerns me.

This is very different from the concern you expressed in your toplevel comment. A doctor having a profit motive to write prescriptions could very well conflict with their ethical obligation to recommend alternatives where medically appropriate. On the other hand, it's my impression that most of the medicines people obtain this way - specifically contraceptives and erectile dysfunction treatments - are straightforward…

This is very different from the concern you expressed in your toplevel comment.

One concern leads to the other. That is to say, if I thought patients were receiving a medical consultation which met the normal standard of care, I would not be concerned about physician-avoidant behaviours; it's the combination of "may have received medication without a proper medical consultation" and "may be unlikely to seek medical care in the event of potentially life-threatening complications" which concerns me.

it's my impression that most of the medicines people obtain this way - specifically contraceptives and erectile dysfunction treatments - are straightforward enough that an automated decision tree could probably do a reasonable job screening most patients.

I agree. And I'd rather have such screening performed by an FDA-approved automated decision tree than by a doctor who has financial incentives in conflict with his ethical obligations.

Post reply on HN