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The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

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21–30 of 238 posts

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#21
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Before posting something dismissive about this, please remember how easy it would have been to dismiss the internet and the web themselves as things that couldn't ever happen, nice visions but impossible in the real world, etc. etc. and so on. When the people who actually made these things talk about what needs making next, we should hear them with an open mind, not rush to think of objections.

Not sure it's that, but that the founders had a bit of luck, and to believe any future efforts would not require luck would be foolish in my opinion.

Future efforts always require a bit of luck.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#22
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Their goals seem at odds with the economic incentives in the entire developed world. It's a beautiful dream, but we're not sufficiently civilized to make it reality.

>> "we're not sufficiently civilized to make it reality." To me, the opposite is true, society has become too civilized. True change would require risks that the majority of Internet users would see as too risky, unnecessary, and a threat to stability & safety.

I don't understand why tootie is getting downvoted but it seems that both of you talk about the same thing, albeit with exactly the opposite wording.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#23
post #20

Job 1: Advertising interests be damned, this mass surveillance thing has got to go.

Key to ending massive surveillance is not tech, but social change.

Yes, people aren't like they were 20 years ago, they've been trained to give up their privacy for a few shinies.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Storing knowledge in written semistatic documents to be referenced is for the most part a higher education model. The vast majority of the planet stores knowledge in people and references it via direct communications.

> The vast majority of the planet stores knowledge in people and references it via direct communications. i'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense based on some kind of ignorant, fantastical misunderstanding of how non-western people live. in fact it's pretty damn offensive if you really think about it. let me give you a hint: east and southeast asia, india, middle east/northern africa have all been pretty big fans o…

Well, technically speaking, writing can be used for both [nearly-]ephemeral communications (letters/messages) and persistent storage (books), so literacy levels alone don't immediately imply that the knowledge is archived and distributed this way.

But your point is absolutely valid, because, I believe, every (or so) civilization that had invented writing, had books or similar concepts (tablets, etc). Persistent information storage in form of written text just can't be "western" thing. Libraries had and continue exist nearly everywhere, regardless of the culture.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#26
post #23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Key to ending massive surveillance is not tech, but social change.

Yes, people aren't like they were 20 years ago, they've been trained to give up their privacy for a few shinies.

People can trade for things. They want a service. They are OK with being cattle. Who are you to get mad? It's like when the US got mad that the Palestinians elected Hamas. They get to vote. Let them have their way.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#27
post #23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Key to ending massive surveillance is not tech, but social change.

Yes, people aren't like they were 20 years ago, they've been trained to give up their privacy for a few shinies.

They give it up for free photo storage and a like button.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#28
The web is already decentralized, but lack the convenience of Facebook et al. where you have a virtual identity, a friend list and can choose who get access to your images etc.

This can however be accomplished with something like SSH keys, where your "friend" list is basically a list of public keys. And a small daemon that will let "friends" make queries like "is this a friend or a friend", etc.

With a identity system in place, other things get more easy to solve, like spam, and micro-payments based on chain-of trust and reputation. I also think it would be fairly easy to implement in current web tech like browsers and http servers, e-mail servers, and chat services.

Note that your id will only be a hash (public key), and you will thus be anonymous until you tell others that this is you, and the client software could also ask the user before giving it away to a server.

It would also work with something like TOR, where your IP is hidden, and the hash is your fingerprint, witch you can change whenever you want.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#29
post #2

https://github.com/psybernetics/synchrony I'm working on something else right now but when it's feature complete I'll port synchrony to Go. The plan is to give full consideration to potential pitfalls of multiple overlay networks, the contacts list, and of course peer-to-peer streaming hypermedia. "ENABLE_WEB_APP" is also going to be a configfile option. Users should also be able to modify a list of domains they won'…

I looked at the README but I can't understand what this project is or what it is for. Is it something for collaborative editing?

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#30

Most of these guys are a disconnected from where the global market is going and are proposing preposterous ideas for west coast tech scenes own problems. The web was based on a Western educational reference model that is not the normal mode for 3/4ths of the planet. The new web would need to be pushed based, not pull based. It would need to be need to be instantly authorable and aware of people and devices, Not docum…

I'm surprised that people seem to believe you're trolling. Or perhaps that confirms your point!

tsunamifury is absolutely right that the relatively static, document-centric model of the web is an extension of Western academic culture. TBL's project was originally shaped by the need for researchers to share papers.

Even in the world of HTTP/2 and all the other horrors of modern adtech, we still have this model. The site operator painstakingly prepares some info for anyone to find via a universal locator. And then it sort of runs itself.

(Caution: the following is handwavey bullshit I'm just making up right now.)

It's at least thinkable that we could go in a totally different direction now that we have instant messaging, always-connected devices, and some ability to do automated natural language processing.

tsunamifury mentions how most of the planet still runs on person-to-person messages. But for Westerners, think about how many jobs have operated in this mode forever, where all their actions are about filtering incoming messages, making decisions, emitting messages, and otherwise coordinating the work of others. In the West, front-line service workers do this, and so do executives, but everyone in the middle has more abstracted work product.

The web made everyone a publisher. Maybe the next thing could be: everyone more empowered to be the customer-relations person / executive of their own life.

That doesn't mean document-centric publishing goes away, but maybe it's not central to the next wave.

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