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Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

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Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#71

Post by peteretep »

daleharvey wrote: post #64
jkot wrote: post #19

It is very inefficient to bring people to Germany and other western countries in order to help them. We could help one person in Germany, or another 10 people in Turkey for the same money. Most people coming to Europe are economic migrantw, not from countries affected by war. Refugees who can not afford $4000 for transport are left without help. It all started when Turkey asked for humanitarian aid. Merkel would not…

You are probably right, people are dying in their thousands to cross the med because they want some more cash ...

Why do you think they're crossing the med instead of staying in Turkey?

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#72

Post by cjhpufe »

Freestyler_3 wrote: post #27

I do not wish harm for any innocent people. If they want they can get what we have in their own country, they need to make that possible though, if needed with our help. (I think there should be more focus on taking care of refugees and the like in the region... or at least more in countries that support their culture) Only when really necessary we need to take refugees into europe for protection, usually those are p…

I agree. The more Syrian migrants we let in, the more our countries become like Syria due to Syrian cultural impact. I don't really want to live in New Syria, so I'd rather they stay out.

Or to put it another way, I have no desire whatsoever to see Islamic cultures take root in my country any more than they already have done, with their built-in homophobia and misogyny, and other such problems. We've worked hard to build a more equal society, and letting in those whose culture disregards that is a threat.

We can, and should, help them in their own country. But we have to do so while protecting our own too.

(Throwaway account because complaining about cultural incompatibility tends to be regarded as 'racist', even though it has nothing to do with race.)

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#73

Post by dzaragozar »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #55
dzaragozar wrote: post #46

Why is the EU the only responsible for refugees? Why not other states? Why not Russia, the Gulf states, Japan or the United States? It is getting tiring the bashing against the EU. The EU is getting refugees at the rate it deems convenient, if some other state is worried about the situation in Syria please take refugees, but please stop labeling the EU as evil.

The EU is the closet first world region. And they are signers to the convention. Arab world is helping...havent you heard about the huge refugee camps in Jordan?

Being close is no excuse in this globalized world. Also to take refugees there is no need to be a first world country. I should have included China in my previous list.

Completely true, but Jordan is not the only Arab country able to help.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#74

Post by petra »

rvense wrote: post #44
toyg wrote: post #34

Uh, regardless of your stance on the specific topic (refugee handling), isn't this simply a tactical mistake? Let's say the EU is your enemy. They offer you money. Is it tactically smarter to flatly refuse the money (you are poorer, your enemy is marginally richer, nothing has changed) or rather to accept the money and then use it to fight the donor (you are richer, your enemy is marginally poorer and you are effecti…

That's one (perfectly valid) way of looking at it. An (IMO equally valid) way of looking at it is that the EU is not 'the enemy' but rather someone you hoped was your ally. But now they're acting against your mission, in a way you feel is unacceptable. They've changed and you can no longer stand with them. In that situation, disassociating from them (with no regard for the tactics) is a sign of integrity.

Even so, their view is a bit unrealistic - if the people of the EU don't want to accept refugees, and leaders can't convince them otherwise, why should leaders disobey the people ?

Altough one could critize the way refugees we're handled by the authorities - instead of mixing them with the population and surfacing all kinds of tensions, they should have closed, but safe and decent refugee camps, and seperate refugees from the population(and also solve the issue of economic immigration). but now might be too late.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#75

Post by Freestyler_3 »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #62
Freestyler_3 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because it is my heritage. My family history made it happen, and many families around us. I am a child of my mother and not a random baby thrown on a random spot on earth, I carry the burden of maintaining or improving the quality of life for my kids. - Doesn't mean that I do not wish that everyone in this world can have what I have, and I support helping others. - There are ways to come here and join our cultur…

And the only reason you are part of that family is luck. A Syrian refugee didn't choose to be born in Syria at a time when they would have to face civil war at some stage in their life. I think if the tables were turned are you had to flee to Syria your opinion would be vastly different.

We don't choose where we are born, nor do our parents generally. We do choose how where we are born looks. Are you saying we need to move all the people on earth away from every civil war and feel responsible for that? Are we preventing civil war in our own country by bringing aggressors in? - And also not all these people being rescued are victims of civil war, many actually just have economic reasons. Many act as economic anchor for the rest of their family (they get in then later the whole family can come in).

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#76

Post by tgb »

toyg wrote: post #34

Uh, regardless of your stance on the specific topic (refugee handling), isn't this simply a tactical mistake? Let's say the EU is your enemy. They offer you money. Is it tactically smarter to flatly refuse the money (you are poorer, your enemy is marginally richer, nothing has changed) or rather to accept the money and then use it to fight the donor (you are richer, your enemy is marginally poorer and you are effecti…

The point is to persuade people. I'm persuaded, because I firmly believe that msf values these redugees strongly and that the only reason they would refuse funds would be if they thought the situation truly dire.

Think of self starvation protests, but at an organizational level.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#77

Post by fuj »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #31
Freestyler_3 wrote: post #27

I do not wish harm for any innocent people. If they want they can get what we have in their own country, they need to make that possible though, if needed with our help. (I think there should be more focus on taking care of refugees and the like in the region... or at least more in countries that support their culture) Only when really necessary we need to take refugees into europe for protection, usually those are p…

>> "We make something good for our children and we -have- to share it with the whole world in our house?" You mean you got lucky to be born somewhere that isn't currently at war and now you feel entitled to what you were born into?

oh give me a break. What does that has to do with what he said? Not wanting millions of people to come here demanding social benefits and whatnot does not make me or anyone else a bad person. Political refugees should be free to come, economical migrants need to follow the existing regulations.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#78

Post by cjhpufe »

panic wrote: post #45
CydeWeys wrote: post #42

A lot of the rapid shift in migration policy has been caused by the increasing prevalence of the view that a lot of refugees will never fit into "polite society". Reference the various sexual assaults across European countries by roving gangs of young men used to very different cultural mores who aren't assimilating culturally. If the choice comes down to protecting refugees or protecting your own society and the mor…

The vast majority of refugees aren't committing sexual assault. If you care about reducing sexual assault, supporting domestic violence shelters and education (e.g. programs like http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/prevent... ) would be much more effective than reducing immigration. Most sexual assault occurs between people who already know one another, not random foreign strangers.

No, but the attitudes of males from Islamic culture towards women tend to be very much at odds with what we expect in modern Western society. This is a burgeoning problem as we admit more refugees from Islamic states. See for example http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35353310

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#79

Post by hacksonx »

South Africa has received a huge influx of refugees overs the years from Zimbabwe, Mozambique & Nigeria. Even though the "people" have protested this and asked for the foreigners to be deported (Legal/Illegal) the government has not done that to humans. How a 3rd (2nd?) world country is able to accommodate people of such numbers while 1st world countries in Europe complain is beyond me.
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