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Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

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Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#41

Post by jlg23 »

raverbashing wrote: post #16
forgotpwtomain wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Europe taking responsibility for their interventionist policies in the Middle East and their support for the US military agenda in the Middle East which created most of these problems in the first place?

Yes, France opposed the invasion of Iraq in 2002. What do they get? Several terrorist actions in one year.

France also has a very bad track record in the Maghreb and lots of people who lived under French rule or lost people in their parents' generation are still alive. Given that France did not do much to make up for that, it is understandable that there still is a lot of hatred and they thus are an easy target. Concentrating a large, poor and badly educated 1st and 2nd generation of immigrants from those countries in neglected suburbs also did not help....

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#42

Post by CydeWeys »

A lot of the rapid shift in migration policy has been caused by the increasing prevalence of the view that a lot of refugees will never fit into "polite society". Reference the various sexual assaults across European countries by roving gangs of young men used to very different cultural mores who aren't assimilating culturally.

If the choice comes down to protecting refugees or protecting your own society and the more vulnerable people within it, and that's what it's looking like to a lot of people, then your choice becomes obvious.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#43

Post by jacquesm »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #30
nxzero wrote: post #11

I support Doctors Without Borders choice and strongly disagree with how the EU is dealing the issue; and for that matter not dealing with the related issues. Most natural way of dealing with the issue is to allow those legally escaping a country to seek asylum wherever they're able to do so and/or to them feels like the best place to go.

>> "Most natural way of dealing with the issue is to allow those legally escaping a country to seek asylum wherever they're able to do so and/or to them feels like the best place to go." The problem with that is that the first countries they tend to arrive in are poorer European countries that don't have the necessary resources to process them. Allowing them to choose which country they want to go to will end up burd…

> Allowing them to choose which country they want to go to will end up burdening the richer European countries as they will undoubtedly be the final destination for most migrants.

Fortunately those richer countries are better equipped to handle that burden (because they are rich).

This is a complex problem and I really do not have any 5 minute solutions (I wish), but processing taking long seems to me a problem that is mostly caused by the receiving countries, not by the refugees.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#44

Post by rvense »

toyg wrote: post #34

Uh, regardless of your stance on the specific topic (refugee handling), isn't this simply a tactical mistake? Let's say the EU is your enemy. They offer you money. Is it tactically smarter to flatly refuse the money (you are poorer, your enemy is marginally richer, nothing has changed) or rather to accept the money and then use it to fight the donor (you are richer, your enemy is marginally poorer and you are effecti…

That's one (perfectly valid) way of looking at it.

An (IMO equally valid) way of looking at it is that the EU is not 'the enemy' but rather someone you hoped was your ally. But now they're acting against your mission, in a way you feel is unacceptable. They've changed and you can no longer stand with them. In that situation, disassociating from them (with no regard for the tactics) is a sign of integrity.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#45

Post by panic »

CydeWeys wrote: post #42

A lot of the rapid shift in migration policy has been caused by the increasing prevalence of the view that a lot of refugees will never fit into "polite society". Reference the various sexual assaults across European countries by roving gangs of young men used to very different cultural mores who aren't assimilating culturally. If the choice comes down to protecting refugees or protecting your own society and the mor…

The vast majority of refugees aren't committing sexual assault. If you care about reducing sexual assault, supporting domestic violence shelters and education (e.g. programs like http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/prevent...) would be much more effective than reducing immigration. Most sexual assault occurs between people who already know one another, not random foreign strangers.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#46

Post by dzaragozar »

Why is the EU the only responsible for refugees? Why not other states? Why not Russia, the Gulf states, Japan or the United States? It is getting tiring the bashing against the EU.

The EU is getting refugees at the rate it deems convenient, if some other state is worried about the situation in Syria please take refugees, but please stop labeling the EU as evil.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#47

Post by raverbashing »

dalke wrote: post #33
raverbashing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The limit is the receiving countries not becoming what they're fleeing from, obviously If you disagree, my suggestion is that you take in your house as many refugees as the number of people that currently live in it. > If the receiving country has no room, is broke, and its citizenry are on the edge of starvation, then that's one limit. Oh of course, let's destroy whole countries otherwise people like you will think…

Boo-hoo. I live in Sweden. We have taken in huge numbers of people. I will gladly pay extra in taxes to help them out. Sweden is also far from becoming like Syria. If Sweden's policy is the limit, then most of the other EU countries fall far short of the limit you are concerned about.

> Boo-hoo. I live in Sweden. We have taken in huge numbers of people.

The difference between being charitable and naive is a thin one.

> Sweden is also far from becoming like Syria.

Let's hope so. And while I agree most of the "news" on the Internet about Sweden are crap, Sweden has an important gender imbalance and increasing problems with violence

Also nobody speaks anything and pretends it doesn't happen because "it's racist". Like: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/11/swedish-police...

> then most of the other EU countries fall far short of the limit you are concerned about

Portugal and Spain are looking for more people but it doesn't seem anybody wants to go there.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#48

Post by k-mcgrady »

jacquesm wrote: post #43
k-mcgrady wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Most natural way of dealing with the issue is to allow those legally escaping a country to seek asylum wherever they're able to do so and/or to them feels like the best place to go." The problem with that is that the first countries they tend to arrive in are poorer European countries that don't have the necessary resources to process them. Allowing them to choose which country they want to go to will end up burd…

> Allowing them to choose which country they want to go to will end up burdening the richer European countries as they will undoubtedly be the final destination for most migrants. Fortunately those richer countries are better equipped to handle that burden (because they are rich). This is a complex problem and I really do not have any 5 minute solutions (I wish), but processing taking long seems to me a problem that…

>> "Fortunately those richer countries are better equipped to handle that burden (because they are rich)."

I agree, but if you let people choose where they want to go and they mostly pick one of the rich countries it'll become unsustainable for them too which is why I think an even spread across the EU with countries taking in a share based on their wealth would work best.

>> "processing taking long seems to me a problem that is mostly caused by the receiving countries, not by the refugees."

True, I think the bureaucracy around it is a big issue. Refugees are probably lacking in a lot of documentation though (for obvious reasons) which can't help. That seems like something that should be common and obvious enough to authorities though that they can find other ways to verify identity etc.

Re: Doctors Without Borders doesn't take money from EU anymore

#50

Post by Freestyler_3 »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #31
Freestyler_3 wrote: post #27

I do not wish harm for any innocent people. If they want they can get what we have in their own country, they need to make that possible though, if needed with our help. (I think there should be more focus on taking care of refugees and the like in the region... or at least more in countries that support their culture) Only when really necessary we need to take refugees into europe for protection, usually those are p…

>> "We make something good for our children and we -have- to share it with the whole world in our house?" You mean you got lucky to be born somewhere that isn't currently at war and now you feel entitled to what you were born into?

Yes, because it is my heritage. My family history made it happen, and many families around us. I am a child of my mother and not a random baby thrown on a random spot on earth, I carry the burden of maintaining or improving the quality of life for my kids. - Doesn't mean that I do not wish that everyone in this world can have what I have, and I support helping others. - There are ways to come here and join our culture, enrich yourself etc. It does require work though, and if you are not willing to do that then what are you really doing for yourself?
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