Live data from Hacker News

The mutation that famously turned moths black during Industrial Revolution

bbc.com

71–76 of 76 posts

Re: The mutation that famously turned moths black during Industrial Revolution

#71
post #70

If I recall the moths were glued to trees for photos. http://hoaxes.org/photo_database/image/the_peppered_moth This whole thing was BS, or at least a huge part of it.

You mean the picture was staged... which is a huge difference from saying the "whole thing" or even "a huge part of it". Do you also look at paper models of the solar system and go "Those aren't real planets... must be a bunch of BS"? It seems to me like you either didn't read the article or didn't understand it.

From the link the parent commenter posted:

> The staging was an issue, critics argued, because it over-simplified the peppered moth story and made it seem that the camouflage of the moths was a self-evident advantage. However, it wasn't clear that moths rested on tree trunks during the day, as the pictures implied. Some evidence suggested they preferred to remain higher in the tree canopy and beneath branches where their coloration would have been less of an advantage. Also, it wasn't clear that birds were the main predator of moths. Bats also ate moths, and since bats use echolocation to navigate, the coloration of the moths would not have made a difference. Critics also questioned the methodology of Kettlewell's experiments.

Re: The mutation that famously turned moths black during Industrial Revolution

#72
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the picture was staged... which is a huge difference from saying the "whole thing" or even "a huge part of it". Do you also look at paper models of the solar system and go "Those aren't real planets... must be a bunch of BS"? It seems to me like you either didn't read the article or didn't understand it.

From the link the parent commenter posted: > The staging was an issue, critics argued, because it over-simplified the peppered moth story and made it seem that the camouflage of the moths was a self-evident advantage. However, it wasn't clear that moths rested on tree trunks during the day, as the pictures implied. Some evidence suggested they preferred to remain higher in the tree canopy and beneath branches where t…

Its science... all experiments have their methodology questioned by critics. These points are coming from the distorted views of Intelligent Design advocates in hopes to take advantage of peoples ignorance of how science works, a tactic that sadly seems to work well.

Edit: again, read TFA

Re: The mutation that famously turned moths black during Industrial Revolution

#73
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the link the parent commenter posted: > The staging was an issue, critics argued, because it over-simplified the peppered moth story and made it seem that the camouflage of the moths was a self-evident advantage. However, it wasn't clear that moths rested on tree trunks during the day, as the pictures implied. Some evidence suggested they preferred to remain higher in the tree canopy and beneath branches where t…

Its science... all experiments have their methodology questioned by critics. These points are coming from the distorted views of Intelligent Design advocates in hopes to take advantage of peoples ignorance of how science works, a tactic that sadly seems to work well. Edit: again, read TFA

[deleted]

Re: The mutation that famously turned moths black during Industrial Revolution

#74
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The black moths could still mate with the peppered variety so they're still the same species just different 'breeds', perhaps, so is this really evolution? Yes. Evolution is just change in phenotypes over time. Speciation is a whole other ballgame, and there's no definitive answer as to what delineates species from one another. Some different species of fish will interbreed when forced together. That is: Species ar…

I thought it was pretty clearly defined: they product offspring which can reproduce and produce viable offspring among themselves but not with the original population

The question of defining "species" was one of the keystone questions used as an example in a philosophy of science course I took. See: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/species/

Re: The mutation that famously turned moths black during Industrial Revolution

#75
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the link the parent commenter posted: > The staging was an issue, critics argued, because it over-simplified the peppered moth story and made it seem that the camouflage of the moths was a self-evident advantage. However, it wasn't clear that moths rested on tree trunks during the day, as the pictures implied. Some evidence suggested they preferred to remain higher in the tree canopy and beneath branches where t…

Its science... all experiments have their methodology questioned by critics. These points are coming from the distorted views of Intelligent Design advocates in hopes to take advantage of peoples ignorance of how science works, a tactic that sadly seems to work well. Edit: again, read TFA

Science is science, regardless of the motives behind a criticism.

If the criticisms are sound, it doesn't matter who made them.

Re: The mutation that famously turned moths black during Industrial Revolution

#76
post #39
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that was not your original statement, now was it? http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

I am not trying to have an argument with anyone. I'd never even heard of ring species before today

FWIW, neither had I.
Post reply on HN