In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers • Hacker News Board

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#311

Post by bmelton » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 10:05 PM UTC

d883kd8 wrote: post #138

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I have noticed a strange flip-flop over the last 30 years or so. While the most prominent in and out groups have changed, the folks who used to talk the most trash about outsiders are now much more reticent. Now many of the folks who used to complain about getting put down are now the ones (mostly in private, but many times in public) with all the trash talk, i.e., acting like they always thought all the oth…

I've seen it called the "regressive left" in a few places.

I've seen the use of "illiberal left" by social psychologists like Jonathan Haidt (disclosure, I'm a big fan of Haidt), and I find it more appropriate, especially as there are progressive leftists espousing illiberal ideals.

Of course, the gotcha with all such labels is that there are many liberal leftists who hear the term illiberal left and reflexively assume it applies tangentially to them, leading them to deny the existence altogether.

Anecdotally, a friend of mine in California is a huge Bernie Sanders supporter. Has attended rallies, fund-raised, and even designed T-shirts to promote Bernie's messages. A few weeks ago he apparently attended a private party of Bernie Sanders supporters, then messaged me back with "Wow, you'd been saying people like this existed, and I didn't believe it. These guys made me feel much more moderate than I once did."

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#312

Post by gardano » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 10:07 PM UTC

harpastum wrote: post #251

niftich wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make food at home, you either need fresh, perishable ingredients and/or time to prep and cook. Even accessing fresh ingredients may be a hassle (see: food deserts), so eating off the dollar menu often feels like a better use of your money than making the trek to the grocery store to buy some perishables that you then have to cook before they go bad. It's similar to why poor people buy poor-quality shoes more often…

"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boot…

I immediately thought of Sam Vimes too. Well done!

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#313

Post by freerobots » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 10:08 PM UTC

cm2012 wrote: post #183

brianwawok wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am pretty sure the cheeseburger, apple slices, and chocolate milk are not much worse, and probably better, than the typical fare on a slapped together kids meal. Sounds like a false dichotomy. Why not prepare actual healthy food, and not 'slapped together kids meal' ?

McDonald's has some healthy options, wraps, salads, etc. They are a lot less popular though.

It is odd how people are pretending everyone has the same health goals. Some people need extra calories most of us do not. Don't want too many calories or sugars? Order an egg mcmuffin with no muffin.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#314

Post by ecommerceguy » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 10:09 PM UTC

DrScump wrote: post #290

mac01021 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the franchisees owned the property too, and that the franchiser just licenses the IP and provides the foodstuff.

There are corporate-owned restaurants, and there are franchises. Stores can be on leased or owned land. For example, something like 8 McDonald's in San Francisco have closed or are closing in the past few years, many because of lost leases, supposedly. One rumored to be threatened location is 3rd and Townsend, a great location just one block from AT&T Park and a neighborhood institution (it was there long before the…

"We are in the real estate business, not the hamburger business." Ray Croc, Founder of McDonalds.

"If a location is good enough to buy, we want to build on it right away and be in there before the competition. Pump some money and activity into a town, and they’ll remember you for it." Ray Croc, Founder of McDonalds

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#315

Post by DrScump » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 10:12 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #307

DrScump wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try them "well done". Fresh potatoes cut in-store moments before cooking (McD's are pre-cut and frozen).

>McD's are pre-cut and frozen So? There are lots and lots of reasons with many types of food to prefer fresh. But it's also possible to fetishize fresh over frozen for no particular reason. (As is often the case with seafood.) I can only report my experience, which is that I'll sometimes grab (only) some McD's fries when on a long drive and I generally avoid either In-N-Out or ShakeShack fries when getting the rare b…

So?

Just stating fact without making judgments.

  a non-trivial uplift over McDonalds

I agree. McD's price for their "premium" sandwiches are a poor value compared to In-n-Out, Five Guys, etc.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#316

Post by city41 » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 10:12 PM UTC

treehau5 wrote: post #172

smokey_the_bear wrote: post #6

McDonalds is the only restaurant I enjoy eating at with my 2 and 3 year olds. Every other restaurant is a slog to get through the meal. Honestly I'd eat there more often if it weren't for the social stigma of it. (I live in Berkeley). I am pretty sure the cheeseburger, apple slices, and chocolate milk are not much worse, and probably better, than the typical fare on a slapped together kids meal. When I was a kid, my…

> There are some issues with McDonalds, but it is a pleasant user experience. That's interesting, given that McDonalds purposefully designs it's restaurants to get customers in and out as quick as possible. The chairs are hard, uncomfortable plastic, the music is annoying, and the dining room is always set to some arctic temperature.

They don't really do that anymore. McDonald's isn't really competing with Burger King and Wendy's so much these days as Chipotle, Five Guys, etc.

Most modern McDonald's have quite nice decorum, and many even have wifi.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#317

Post by return0 » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 10:12 PM UTC

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #227

niftich wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make food at home, you either need fresh, perishable ingredients and/or time to prep and cook. Even accessing fresh ingredients may be a hassle (see: food deserts), so eating off the dollar menu often feels like a better use of your money than making the trek to the grocery store to buy some perishables that you then have to cook before they go bad. It's similar to why poor people buy poor-quality shoes more often…

I agree if people have no time. I don't watch any TV, but many people do watch a lot of TV so the "no time" is more a prioritization issue for many, watch TV or prepare food. "It's similar to why poor people buy poor-quality shoes more often, as opposed to one high-quality pair once a year." On the contrary, poor people buy poor shoes because they are cheaper and they don't have enough disposable income to afford goo…

* more often

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#318

Post by city41 » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 10:17 PM UTC

tobltobs wrote: post #253

jonknee wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Larger portions, fried foods, soda, etc. You are being purposefully difficult if you can't figure this out on your own.

Fried food? Seriously? Do you believe McDonalds has a backroom in their shops where they have a bakery for their apple slices, and in their backyard they are growing apple trees and some lucky cows are wandering between the trees, so they have fresh milk for their chocolate milk? You are purposely believing all this complete marketing BS so you don't have to feel like a junky if you eat this industrial trashfood. And…

The apple slices are literally raw, unsweetened, sliced apples. Not a baked item.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#319

Post by balls187 » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 10:18 PM UTC

dimino wrote: post #310

balls187 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of attitude is this, really? "Good internet citizenship." Keep your criticism relevant to the topic, which was: McDonald's used as a community center in poor neighborhoods. Not, how to teach your kids good eating habits. > Is parenting some sacred thing, immune from analysis or criticism? Parenting MY kids, most definitely is sacred.

Sorry friend, but when you told a story about how you parent your kids, you put your parenting within the purview of the topic. There is nothing sacred about your parenting that makes it above scrutiny. Nothing whatsoever.

I'm not your friend, buddy.

Also, I never told a story about how I parent my kids.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#320

Post by tobltobs » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 10:19 PM UTC

corin_ wrote: post #304

tobltobs wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to disturb those dreams about fresh cut apple slices. They are not freshly cut, they are cutted and treated with chemicals in a factory, packed into plastic and might be lying around for up to two weeks before some parents give them their kids to alleviate their guilty conscience for taking their kids to a drug food shop. Same for the chocolate milk. But I leave it up to you to find out what great inventions of…

I never said the apple slices were fresh. Of course they're not, they come pre-packaged, who would think they were fresh? That doesn't change the fact that they are slices of apple, and that they're not fried or baked. I'm replying to your delusion that you can't get worse than that meal, I'm not claiming it's the best or most nutritional meal in the world.

> I'm replying to your delusion that you can't get worse than that meal,

And that is wrong, it doesn't matter what you eat at MacDonalds. You can swap the coke against "chocolate milk" to reduce sugar, therefore you get more emulsifier and more preservative. You can swap french fries for apple slices to get less fat, but therefore you get another mix of chemicals without any vitamins left. And all this discussion when the Deli around the corner sells fresh apples ...