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In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

theguardian.com

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Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#301

Post by pbhjpbhj »

slapshot wrote: post #45
grecy wrote: post #30

> I am pretty sure the cheeseburger, apple slices, and chocolate milk are not much worse, and probably better, than the typical fare on a slapped together kids meal. Wow. It saddens me to see that statement. I thought it was commonly knowledge that McDonalds isn't actually "food" in the nutrition and health sense of the word any more than cotton candy and pure salt are.

I'm not suggesting that you eat only McDonald's every day. Nobody is. But relative to some of the stuff that kids find palatable? It's not really much better or worse. It's saltier than I would cook at home, but a healthy kid can pass plenty of salt without a problem: Chicken Nuggets -- pretty standard breaded chicken [1]. I don't love autolysed yeast, but it doesn't make it not "food." Milk -- same as you can get an…

>Chicken Nuggets -- pretty standard breaded chicken //

In the UK the recipe includes "dried glucose syrup" and dextrose.

Also, just calling it autolysed yeast instead of MSG shows they're trying to hide the real contents. What else do they hide under "natural flavours (botanical source)" or whatever they use in ingredients list.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#302

Post by ghaff »

mjevans wrote: post #264
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #119

What astonishes me, is how often poor people go eating in a restaurant (e.g. breakfast in the first paragraph) when making breakfast at home (or lunch) is so much cheaper (as a fun exercise we often calculate the prices of our home lunch). Although I have a nice income, 80% of the time I bring my own food to work because restaurants are too expensive in my opinion to regularly use them. As a side note: I have the sus…

Adding to this; there is also economy of scale. Restaurants can buy in much larger quantity and receive a discount for doing so. It is more /resource/ efficient for restaurants to make meals as they disburse labor and ingredients over many households in one day, instead of a single household's resources and labor trying to use perishable items before they expire. The main issue that comes to my mind is of the more pe…

>The simple dishes, like a sandwich, I would honestly like to be able to make my self, but that doesn't scale down well. A family, sharing the bread, meat, and greens, is really required to make that more economic.

Seriously? You buy a loaf of bread and some cold cuts (or rotisserie chicken or whatever), mustard, mayo. Absolutely no trouble getting a week's worth of food for one person.

Yes, you can absolutely cook at home. I admit that I don't have access to good ethnic takeout or restaurants, so I'm inclined to cook, but I'm pretty sure that I save money as well.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#303

Post by tobltobs »

corin_ wrote: post #285
tobltobs wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fried food? Seriously? Do you believe McDonalds has a backroom in their shops where they have a bakery for their apple slices, and in their backyard they are growing apple trees and some lucky cows are wandering between the trees, so they have fresh milk for their chocolate milk? You are purposely believing all this complete marketing BS so you don't have to feel like a junky if you eat this industrial trashfood. And…

Given you basically said "what could be worse than a cheeseburger, apple and chocolate milk?" here's an easier answer - swap the cheeseburger for a double cheeseburger. There's a nice simple example of "could be worse", for you, without even thinking about different menu items available. The apple: it's raw apple cut into slices... not fried, nor from a fictional bakery that their marketing apparently makes you think…

Sorry to disturb those dreams about fresh cut apple slices. They are not freshly cut, they are cutted and treated with chemicals in a factory, packed into plastic and might be lying around for up to two weeks before some parents give them their kids to alleviate their guilty conscience for taking their kids to a drug food shop.

Same for the chocolate milk. But I leave it up to you to find out what great inventions of the chemical industry enable this always same creamy taste without clumped together cacao.

And the argument about bigger portions has something to do with eating habits, but not with healthy food.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#304

Post by corin_ »

tobltobs wrote: post #303
corin_ wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given you basically said "what could be worse than a cheeseburger, apple and chocolate milk?" here's an easier answer - swap the cheeseburger for a double cheeseburger. There's a nice simple example of "could be worse", for you, without even thinking about different menu items available. The apple: it's raw apple cut into slices... not fried, nor from a fictional bakery that their marketing apparently makes you think…

Sorry to disturb those dreams about fresh cut apple slices. They are not freshly cut, they are cutted and treated with chemicals in a factory, packed into plastic and might be lying around for up to two weeks before some parents give them their kids to alleviate their guilty conscience for taking their kids to a drug food shop. Same for the chocolate milk. But I leave it up to you to find out what great inventions of…

I never said the apple slices were fresh. Of course they're not, they come pre-packaged, who would think they were fresh? That doesn't change the fact that they are slices of apple, and that they're not fried or baked. I'm replying to your delusion that you can't get worse than that meal, I'm not claiming it's the best or most nutritional meal in the world.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#305

Post by VLM »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #271
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It used to be that the left was anti-authoritarian and the right was authoritarian. Libertarians were extremely anti-authoritarian. What has evolved, however, was that "soft" libertarianism got co-opted by the right. The left also co-opted libertarians, but not to the degree the right did. As the right gained more libertarians, it gave up some of its boardroom elitism. The result here was that the right's base b…

>It used to be that the left was anti-authoritarian and the right was authoritarian. Libertarians were extremely anti-authoritarian. What has evolved, however, was that "soft" libertarianism got co-opted by the right. The left also co-opted libertarians, but not to the degree the right did. Since the "right" as we know it remains, as ever, in favor of banning gay marriage, recreational marijuana, and alcohol sales on…

>the "right" as we know it

Insert standard parable of the blind men talking funny about elephant parts. Like it or not, there's at least five "right" wings and its like herding cats. The Christians were dominant maybe two decades ago, neocons were dominant for awhile, not so much recently. You can guess who's on the rise and the progs don't like it very much.

1) Neocon / megacorporate lackey. Never seen an eternal war their defense contractors who pay their re-election funds don't love. Koch Bros. Loves immigration; the middle/lower classes and the whites are to be eliminated. Thinks "Brazil" and "1984" and "brave new world" are instruction manuals. Loves income inequality. Globalist Imperialists. Basically they embrace their inner "bad guy James Bond villain" rather than suppress it. Some women (and men) really like the bad boys. Popularity in the population was much higher in the recent past. Have more money than they know what to do with, none the less struggle to get votes. These guys buy ads on social media and run campaigns.

2) Evangelical progressive Christian. If your church has electric guitars and spotlights and a projection TV and glitter as part of ceremonies you are here. Also see prosperity gospel and theological concept of "buddy jesus". This is where small local businessmen chill. Foreign policy is turn the other cheek. Weakest nominal attachment to the R party. Can't get these people to stop social signalling on facebook ("like and share this prayer" etc)

3) Bible belt southerners. If your church hates gays you are here. Strange alliance with Utah churches. Doesn't like alcohol, caffeine, or weed. Mostly a group defined by who and what they don't like. Like abortion, for example. These guys don't use computers or social media because those and Dungeons and Dragons are a tool of the devil.

4) Establishment / conventional wisdom / co-opted psuedo controlled opposition. These are the guys you see on TV and in congress. Maybe if we steal the platform of the progs from 20 years ago they'll love us. Cut to chase, no, the progs still hate them. Generally don't care about anything but gaining power. Kind of like neocons but less spine and much lower energy. Thinks about morals and ethics in terms of voting poll percentages. These guys buy ads on social media.

5) Alt right / 1488 / Libertarian crowd. Explosively growing. Trump. Average age is about half the above groups or lower. Smokes weed but calls it degenerate when others smoke up. Looks at gays the same way. Build a wall. Abortion is OK but to be avoided. This wing is meme central. Some memes: An alt right is a libertarian who finally noticed the worlds average IQ is below 120. Another meme: A 1488 is a guy who figured out the dominant belief of progs is they are anti-white people. The only group with a sense of humor, which is unfortunately (or entertainingly?) caustic and corrosive and so dark its like blacker than black humor. Foreign policy is non-interventionist, anti-imperialist and anti-globalist. Generally broadly speaking anti-corporate and anti-social media.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#306

Post by balls187 »

dimino wrote: post #231
balls187 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your kids are your kids and it's your choice how to raise them. Full stop. No need to continue with the rest of your judgements. Parenting is a very hard job, and it's only made worse by all the parents (and even worse--non-parents) that want to make judgements. Being a parent, I now have a profound respect and appreciation for my parents (especially my mother). Things weren't always great, but they did the best th…

What kind of attitude is this, really? Is parenting some sacred thing, immune from analysis or criticism? Does parenting happen outside the realm of logic or reason, where all decisions are good, and any attempt at measurement or objectivity is worthless?

> What kind of attitude is this, really?

"Good internet citizenship."

Keep your criticism relevant to the topic, which was: McDonald's used as a community center in poor neighborhoods. Not, how to teach your kids good eating habits.

> Is parenting some sacred thing, immune from analysis or criticism?

Parenting MY kids, most definitely is sacred.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#307

Post by ghaff »

DrScump wrote: post #293
sturmen wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that McDonald's has the best fries in the game. Although In-N-Out's fries (when ordered plain) are some of the worst. As is custom, Animal Style is the way to go!

Try them "well done". Fresh potatoes cut in-store moments before cooking (McD's are pre-cut and frozen).

>McD's are pre-cut and frozen

So?

There are lots and lots of reasons with many types of food to prefer fresh. But it's also possible to fetishize fresh over frozen for no particular reason. (As is often the case with seafood.)

I can only report my experience, which is that I'll sometimes grab (only) some McD's fries when on a long drive and I generally avoid either In-N-Out or ShakeShack fries when getting the rare burger at those places (which I rather enjoy).

It's probably also worth noting though that the premium fast burger places are, to greater or lesser degrees, (unsurprisingly) a non-trivial uplift over McDonalds.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#308

Post by coliveira »

Of course, this doesn't mean it is a good thing. The most probable reason is that poor neighborhoods are so much in need of public services that even a McDonalds will alleviate their problems. In a concrete sense, private companies have largely taken over public spaces and many have no other alternatives.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#309

Post by coliveira »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #289
jernfrost wrote: post #157

Bizarre how the article seems to present this as a hopeful and positive thing about McDonalds. To me it is just another indicator of how broken American society is. A fast food place serving terrible and unhealthy food is becoming a gathering place for poor people who are probably the ones most in need of a healthier and better lifestyle. It is also a sad reminder of how society has gone so utterly wrong when the che…

I wonder if there's an international problem with this story. McDonalds in the UK isn't particularly cheap, you can feed a family on the price of a BigMac meal (burger, fries, drink). BigMacs here are quite a sweet food, sugary bun with sweetened relish; and certainly fatty though the patties tend to be pretty dry. The fries at McDo are saltier tasting than any other food I eat except "salt chicken" [at the chinese b…

There is a big difference between McDonalds in the US and abroad. I know them from Brazil, and there it is a relatively upscale fast food chain. In the US, they serve very low quality food and most locations are also borderline usable (only clean enough to pass inspections).

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#310

Post by dimino »

balls187 wrote: post #306
dimino wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of attitude is this, really? Is parenting some sacred thing, immune from analysis or criticism? Does parenting happen outside the realm of logic or reason, where all decisions are good, and any attempt at measurement or objectivity is worthless?

> What kind of attitude is this, really? "Good internet citizenship." Keep your criticism relevant to the topic, which was: McDonald's used as a community center in poor neighborhoods. Not, how to teach your kids good eating habits. > Is parenting some sacred thing, immune from analysis or criticism? Parenting MY kids, most definitely is sacred.

Sorry friend, but when you told a story about how you parent your kids, you put your parenting within the purview of the topic.

There is nothing sacred about your parenting that makes it above scrutiny. Nothing whatsoever.

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