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VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

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Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#231

Post by level3 »

kbart wrote: post #126
pjc50 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Third parties and surveys e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulation_Verification_Counc... Similar to Nielsen ratings for television, they're approximate.

So why can't the same be done on websites? If numbers of views can't be confirmed without spying on users or trusting shady actors to do that for you, it means the business model that is based on this metric is skewed.

In general, newspapers serve the same ads to all their users, so approximate circulation roughly correlates to an ad's reach. Websites don't, so even if you knew a website's pageview count you would have no idea what percentage of those pageviews an ad appeared on.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#232

Post by kuschku »

themartorana wrote: post #139
KB1JWQ wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user, I'm requesting only YOUR content. I don't get a choice past that what your revenue model looks like. Your decision (or not) to host ads from various networks means that from my perspective, I visit your page and suddenly my performance / bandwidth turns to garbage. Ergo the lesson I learn is to not visit your site. How's that a net positive for content creators?

Were you planning on paying for the content otherwise?

Maybe. Maybe I buy your magazine in paper every month and just expect being able to read the content online, too.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#233

Post by spiderfarmer »

yilugurlu wrote: post #215
spiderfarmer wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requesting ads doesn't have to be on pageload. Advertisers may want to track everything, but that doesn't mean you have to. If everyone is doing it, you can differentiate by saying NO. As a marketer my problem never was "I don't have enough data", but it always was "I don't have enough traffic". Give me quality traffic and I'll hand you my money. As a publisher THAT's what I want to offer. Quality traffic, without al…

How can I provide you a good quality traffic without having those stats? I am classifying publishers based on those stats and also requesting money from you again based on those stats. You can not differentiate by saying not, because there is no such an option like NO!

I define good quality traffic by what they are doing on my website, not by who they are or what they are doing before they end up here.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#234

Post by ddebernardy »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #163
ju-st wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what about fraud?

As in? Both views and clicks can still be tracked so fraud will have to be dealt with in the same way as it is right now. If you are saying that fraud is harder to detect without building user profiles, that might be so. But it's not impossible. If you are saying that ads can be changed into clickbait I guess you'll have find a way to deal with that. I think an ad network should have an active relationship with both…

Fraud is hard to detect even with user profiling. Among other tricks, sophisticated fraudsters replay genuine user sessions collected on hacked computers to build fake profiles.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#235

Post by dhimes »

marcosdumay wrote: post #224
dhimes wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe what we need isn't an ad network, but a service that makes it easy for sites to self-host ads. Like some sort of gateway- I'm thinking adapter pattern- so that advertisers build their ads to a certain spec, and the web site plugs them in. The ad isn't served by a third party, just spec'd by it. We'd also need a plug-and-play payment pattern.

That gateway is an ad network. Now, if it was an open standard without a gateway, it would be a different beast. But fraud would kill it.

No- the ad isn't served by the gateway. It's not an ad network. It's a standard (open or not) combined with the service to help advertisers conform and site owners to plug them in. Like itunes for ads.

Ad networks seem to be immune to fraud. Large companies will pay to have their brands seen anyway; us small guys take the hit.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#236

Post by marcosdumay »

a3n wrote: post #73

From the comments: > Peter Dahlberg > we, the publishers, get the full blame from our readers. That's because you are to blame. As far as I know nobdoy forces you to use those shitty ad networks. Look for a honest way to finance your business and don't whine. That actually makes a lot of sense. As long as Google et al. are making money from this, they have no incentive to change. Google, the automated rainbow monolit…

> and then know that I can whitelist it?

Don't bother. Your ad-blocking software does not block inline ads anyway, and this is a requirement for them being non-harmfull.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#237

Post by franciscop »

School-Cotton wrote: post #209
J_Darnley wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds great to me. People only publishing what they want others to read, no clickbait, absolutely marvellous.

How do you expect journalists to pay their rent in this utopia?

The internet and cheap computing has made anyone with some writing skills able to compete with journalists.

So maybe journalism as a profession is dying as blogging as a hobby rises. Of course there is value in professional journalism, but the need for that journalism is more specific.

IMO it will happen similar to encyclopedia authors or GPS makers followed a decade back.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#239

Post by spiderfarmer »

franciscop wrote: post #220
spiderfarmer wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a (former) marketer I can tell you that without affordable ways to advertise their services, a lot of SMB's would go bust and even more power would end up in the hands of large corporations. Advertising serves a purpose for both parties.

That is a totally fair point and one I didn't consider. The alternative for SMB's would be to have good SEO and recognition. But that is built over time, it's difficult to get the initial burst of people needed initially otherwise. There's still YC's mantra, doing something people want and letting those people spread the word, but that's just one more way (and probably shouldn't be the only one).

As a marketer, that was my mantra as well. Give us a year and we'll turn your website into the expert in it's field. Without that ambition your site is just one the 1.000.000 search results. After that year, you only have to maintain your reputation and make sure you keep up with changing technology.

But most people are focused on the short term. You can pretty much switch on traffic with an advertising campaign. Wooha, but once the CPC start to increase and you'll have to stop, your business is dead as well.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#240

Post by spiderfarmer »

unethical_ban wrote: post #211
CPLX wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you were running the internet marketing agency and spending six figures on ads would your clients have been OK with the model you outlined above? Would you have steered their dollars there rather than to platforms that allow more rich media ads, more tracking/demographics, retargeting, and similar?

You've poked and prodded the parent commenter, but he has provided more discussion than you have. What is your issue with his suggestion? What are your qualifications to have issue with his suggestion?

Thanks, but I didn't mind. Seemed like a valid question.
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