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VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

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Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#211

Post by unethical_ban »

CPLX wrote: post #202
spiderfarmer wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ran a small Internet Marketing agency for the last 15 years (15 people) and have been a publisher in my spare time, I sold it last year to focus on being a publisher. This small agency easily spent 500k a year on Adwords alone. Not much maybe, but there are tens of thousands of agencies just like that one. As a self-taught developer, I rebuilt my main website from the ground up and relaunched it last month. I have…

When you were running the internet marketing agency and spending six figures on ads would your clients have been OK with the model you outlined above? Would you have steered their dollars there rather than to platforms that allow more rich media ads, more tracking/demographics, retargeting, and similar?

You've poked and prodded the parent commenter, but he has provided more discussion than you have. What is your issue with his suggestion? What are your qualifications to have issue with his suggestion?

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#212

Post by mtgx »

cantlin wrote: post #184

At the Guardian we needed our own video player, because we couldn't rely on a third party platform not to take down something that we published. Editorial independence was important. We implemented our player on top of video.js, and most of the developers who were there at the time still have nightmares about it. We finally got the thing working, looking good, embeddable, reasonably cross-browser. We shipped it. A fe…

They will have to solve it by next year, because Chrome will stop activating Flash by default.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/15/11679394/chrome-to-block-f...

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#213

Post by merpnderp »

thirdsun wrote: post #208
cantlin wrote: post #184

At the Guardian we needed our own video player, because we couldn't rely on a third party platform not to take down something that we published. Editorial independence was important. We implemented our player on top of video.js, and most of the developers who were there at the time still have nightmares about it. We finally got the thing working, looking good, embeddable, reasonably cross-browser. We shipped it. A fe…

Thanks for your insight. Maybe I'm naive but how are these ads of any value to the advertiser? - nobody wants them, everybody ignores them. How can ads that surely almost exclusively receive accidental clicks be so worthwhile for publishers like you?

I'm no expert but I believe the clickthroughs are measured in tiny fractions. It is quite possible you don't know anyone who clicks on them on purpose, but that doesn't mean few enough people do it to not make money.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#214

Post by spiderfarmer »

CPLX wrote: post #202
spiderfarmer wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ran a small Internet Marketing agency for the last 15 years (15 people) and have been a publisher in my spare time, I sold it last year to focus on being a publisher. This small agency easily spent 500k a year on Adwords alone. Not much maybe, but there are tens of thousands of agencies just like that one. As a self-taught developer, I rebuilt my main website from the ground up and relaunched it last month. I have…

When you were running the internet marketing agency and spending six figures on ads would your clients have been OK with the model you outlined above? Would you have steered their dollars there rather than to platforms that allow more rich media ads, more tracking/demographics, retargeting, and similar?

Oh yes, absolutely.

As a marketer my problem never was "I don't have enough data", but it always was "I don't have enough traffic". Just give me quality traffic and I'll hand you my money.

I don't need all bells and whistles as it makes it far too hard (and expensive) to set up a campaign for a small SMB.

As for the clients, they only want to know the results and maybe a list of sites where their ads were shown.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#215

Post by yilugurlu »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #204
yilugurlu wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ads can be requested server side by sending the URL where the ad will be displayed through an API. The response contains the ad code, as well as the expiration date So, while adserver waiting for an ad from the RTB waterfall, then your server would wait too. It's not best practice I guess. Besides that, many of your points already adopted by all ad networks. Many of the ad sector's problems directly related to adve…

Requesting ads doesn't have to be on pageload. Advertisers may want to track everything, but that doesn't mean you have to. If everyone is doing it, you can differentiate by saying NO. As a marketer my problem never was "I don't have enough data", but it always was "I don't have enough traffic". Give me quality traffic and I'll hand you my money. As a publisher THAT's what I want to offer. Quality traffic, without al…

How can I provide you a good quality traffic without having those stats?

I am classifying publishers based on those stats and also requesting money from you again based on those stats.

You can not differentiate by saying not, because there is no such an option like NO!

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#216

Post by dhimes »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #187
dhimes wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore I don't believe that fraud is being stopped now. I have paid google for a lot of meaningless clicks on their search network (people come to a page for a second or two). Not just a few- but the bulk of the clicks are like that. And don't get me started on mobile. That's why I'm staying away from ppc and am advertising with CPM. My spidey-sense tells me it hasn't been as thoroughly gamed yet.

If you want to be truly disruptive, you could build an ad network that doesn't require you to pay for bounces. An improved version of Google's quality score (read: one that works) would also improve the quality of the network as a whole.

CPM does that (cost per 1000 views as opposed to pay-per-click).

The quality score is quality from Google's point of view. If I put in things that help me qualify my leads (and get fewer people clicking and discovering that they don't want it), my quality score goes down. (The best way to do that, by the way, is to put in a price. Then the people who are just doing research tend to not click it. But you get penalized for that.)

They are throwing no intelligence at it. I have an entire site set up around study skills. My quality score for "study skills?" 1/10.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#217

Post by icebraining »

zzzcpan wrote: post #157
icebraining wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your users are from poor countries, you'll also get pennies from ads. TAANSFL. If you have an actual community, it's more efficient to simply ask for donations.

Donations don't work in poor countries. People from wealthy countries usually forget about the rest of the world, when they talk about things that annoy them.

If you read my post history, I'm a constant dissident in the "let's ban all web ads" movement exactly because I think they act as a redistribution mechanism from wealthier societies to poorer ones.

That said, if you're running a hobby site that only targets people from a poor country, the money has to come from them anyway, be it from ads or from donations. In that particular situation, why would ads bring more money than donations compared to sites targeting people from richer countries?

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#218

Post by Jordrok »

vacri wrote: post #120
Sir_Substance wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not that straightforward though; these networks all pile in on each other, layers and layers deep, and in real time. It is very difficult for a publisher to work out who they are dealing with. Then the publisher should stop working with networks that do this. That's not in our control as users, only the publisher can do that.

It's as much in your control as a user as it is for the publisher; both actions involve complaining up the chain and/or boycotting the upstream service.

Thus, adblockers. Maybe we need something like Adblock Plus at the publisher level which lets through the "good" ads and blocks the abusive ones? Something tells me that publishers don't really care enough to go that far though.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#219

Post by redcalx »

cantlin wrote: post #184

At the Guardian we needed our own video player, because we couldn't rely on a third party platform not to take down something that we published. Editorial independence was important. We implemented our player on top of video.js, and most of the developers who were there at the time still have nightmares about it. We finally got the thing working, looking good, embeddable, reasonably cross-browser. We shipped it. A fe…

Incidentally, your (The Guardian) android app is very slow to load, it's annoying enough that I uninstalled it.

Re: VPAID ads destroy performance and are still served by major ad networks

#220

Post by franciscop »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #148
franciscop wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean publishers

As a (former) marketer I can tell you that without affordable ways to advertise their services, a lot of SMB's would go bust and even more power would end up in the hands of large corporations. Advertising serves a purpose for both parties.

That is a totally fair point and one I didn't consider.

The alternative for SMB's would be to have good SEO and recognition. But that is built over time, it's difficult to get the initial burst of people needed initially otherwise. There's still YC's mantra, doing something people want and letting those people spread the word, but that's just one more way (and probably shouldn't be the only one).

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