81–90 of 124 posts
She could have approved drone strikes using smoke signals or carrier pigeons... - it all boils down to the same thing - execution of human beings without a trial...
Using this results in a lot fewer civilian casualties compared to carpet bombing the area. War will always have civilian casualties and it will always be with us.
So does not performing drone strikes.
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But the U.S. is at war with ISIL, as part of a joint task force involving the Pakistan armed forces. It's not total war, so the real issue is whether or not the CIA drone assassinations killed innocent civilians. The article mentions how drone attacks have killed civilians, but it doesn't specify if those are the CIA requested attacks or if they were approved by Clinton.
By the same logic, China could declare war at certain dissident groups, say Tibet activists (which I think China assumes to be terrorists) and then drone strike their members in the US, if the US refuses to act against those. I don't think this is the standard a civilized nation should hold. EDIT: spelling
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Question is are you in a state of war? Are these considered casualties of war? If yes, then execution without trial is a given.
There are war laws too you know. And execution without a trial is a war crime. Death in combat is another thing altogether.
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Black and white decisions are a luxury that not all people are afforded. Yes it's terrible that innocent lives are lost but it's at least equally terrible, many would argue even more so, that innocent lives of your clan are lost. For many decisions outside the obvious, it is often the case that you're selecting from a pool of bad choices.
> Black and white decisions are a luxury that not all people are afforded. Specially if you are in a hurry for dinner with your pals and you need to press that "yes, do drone strike" button in your mobile phone while you are getting dressed, even though you never heard about this "Abdulah" guy whose photograph you are seeing in the screen right now, but he is unshaven and looks dirty, and is not looking friendly to t…
I get the sentiment — but the commander of military power is basically saying yes or no to military intelligence — it's not their role to be the researchers, just the approvers of the people in command of the research.
There's definitely a 'banality of evil' level of separation there, for sure. And what good is having military intelligence when no one is held accountable for bombing a hospital? Too many degrees of separation.
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There are war laws too you know. And execution without a trial is a war crime. Death in combat is another thing altogether.
Serious question: is there a definition of the difference between execution and combat?
This is exactly the sort of political crap I'd rather not see on the Hacker News front page.
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This description fits almost any action that you can perform when you're at war. So, either you advocate that war courts review cases of all the enemy soldiers before aithorizing an attack, or you have to come up with a more precise definition of what is exactly wrong here. Clarification: I'm not a fan of CIA assasinations, far from it; but "execution without a trial" isn't logically justifiable complaint: we do it i…
It's one thing to shoot back at people who are shooting at you, but we're talking about blowing up people in remote places who aren't currently attacking anyone or doing anything obviously bad, along with anyone near them at the time.
She could have approved drone strikes using smoke signals or carrier pigeons... - it all boils down to the same thing - execution of human beings without a trial...
Question is are you in a state of war? Are these considered casualties of war? If yes, then execution without trial is a given.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Black and white decisions are a luxury that not all people are afforded. Specially if you are in a hurry for dinner with your pals and you need to press that "yes, do drone strike" button in your mobile phone while you are getting dressed, even though you never heard about this "Abdulah" guy whose photograph you are seeing in the screen right now, but he is unshaven and looks dirty, and is not looking friendly to t…
>never heard about this "Abdulah" guy whose photograph you are seeing in the screen right now, but he is unshaven and looks dirty, and is not looking friendly to the camera, so yes, please just strike, and could I have fries with that, please I get the sentiment — but the commander of military power is basically saying yes or no to military intelligence — it's not their role to be the researchers, just the approvers…
Poor Abdulah dies. He was just buying some groceries for his family, and was taken for Muhamed, who really looks like him, but they just were once in a bar drinking tee, just by chance on the same place at the same time. Somebody fucked up.
The gatherers of information on the field are not responsible because they are just collecting facts, which could be used for anything, so they have nothing to do with the death of Abdulah. Errors happen all the time when collecting information, and anyway who would know this one little fact would be used to assassinate poor Abdulah?
The intelligence provider is not responsible because he is not taking any decission, just passing information higher up the chain of command.
The approver is not responsible, because he is just vetting intelligence provided by others.
The one pulling the drone's trigger is not responsible, since he is just following orders.
The drone is not responsible, since it is just a machine.
The politicians designing the whole system are not responsible, since they were doing their best and, you know, shit happens, we can not make perfect laws which cover every possible eventuality.
In fact nobody killed poor Abdulah. I wonder if he is still alive?
> Too many degrees of separation
By design, if you ask me. Now you can bomb anything and kill anybody, since nobody really did it.