Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

benfry.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 66 posts

Re: IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

#41

Post by webwright »

Kilimanjaro wrote: post #9

The iPad will sell like hotcakes and while some preach doomsday for freedom others will make millions developing for it. At the end, pops and moms will be happier than ever with their new computing experience that doesn't crash every day and has to be formatted and reinstalled every other month.

My dad uses his GPS software almost every day (his GPS has Windows software) and likes 1st person shooters. My mom uses her quilting software almost every day. My uncle, a farmer in Iowa, uses QuickBooks for accounting. People have shelves of software that they use/love even if they aren't fans of Windows or OS X. Presuming they buy an iPad and lug their Windows boxes (which neither crash every day nor require reinstallation every month) to the garage, what are they going to do to?

Eventually there might be good software to fill up these niches, but it's going to take quite a while. And people will constantly be assailed with web sites and software boxes that have GOOD SOFTWARE that they can't put on an iPad. The App Store Apple is competing against is the rest of the world--- millions of Apps (some of which are really good!) and gazillions in marketing dollars.

Re: IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

#42

Post by loumf »

The iPad and iPhone puts the needs of the user over the needs of the developer. I agree that the whole "take down the network" line is ridiculous -- but "take down your phone" is not at all ridiculous. Most of the apps I have bought are from unknown (to me) developers -- I would never download a Mac OSX app from any of them without doing a little research to get some confidence that it wasn't going to be malware. Most of the time, it isn't worth the trouble -- I buy OSX software all of the time, but only from established vendors.

With the app developer program, approval process and store, there is a pretty good chance (better than ever) that your device will keep working and that apps you use can't (won't try to) do anything malicious. It lets single developers get access to a market that is very hard to break into.

Certainly, there are decisions Apple has made with the AppStore and approvals that are ridiculous. But, in the history of all human endeavor, there is no complex operation that doesn't have problems. The vast majority of apps are approved without incident. Apple has solved many more worse problems with app distribution than the ones they created.

My main gripes are lack of transparency of the process (and your progression through it) and no way to revert to a previously approved version (or fast track a bug fix). Also, the lack of any way to offer paid updates is a big issue for funding future versions of apps. The control over the platform doesn't bother me at all (as a user or developer).

Re: IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

#43

Post by CrLf »

pvg wrote: post #17
CrLf wrote: post #4

The control that Apple has over the iPhone and the application distribution channel does contribute greatly to the iPhone's success. It makes the platform easily accessible to people who aren't inclined to search the internet for apps and are, in fact, afraid of doing it for all the malware experiences they have on their PCs. They know the App Store has everything, and that they can reasonably expect that the apps wo…

The control that Apple has over the iPhone and the application distribution channel does contribute greatly to the iPhone's success. Does it really? The iPhone was hugely successful well before there was an App Store.

Hugely successful depends on where you look. Bu anyway, it doesn't really matter to the discussion, unless you are agreeing with me when I say that to most people the iPhone is just a better phone. Which is what the iPad is not.

Re: IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

#44

Post by qjz »

tumult wrote: post #14
aw3c2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Kilimanjaro, I want to send some of our holiday photos to aunt Annie with your mom's iPad. Where can I plug it in? Dad." "Kilimanjaro, your father bought a book which I would like to read too. Could you tell us how to copy it to my iPad too? Love, mum"

"Hi Dad. You'll have to buy one of these http://images.apple.com/ipad/specs/images/usb_connectors_201... for the iPad, unless your camera has built-in uploading. Look on the box for a WiFi icon." "Hi mum. Plug your iPad into iTunes and click 'add device to authorized list' under the Advanced menu when dad is logged into his iTunes account."

It doesn't matter that you know the solution. The correct answer is, "Gee, sorry. I don't know anything about the iPad. Ask the Google."

Re: IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

#45

Post by Zev »

tumult wrote: post #14
aw3c2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Kilimanjaro, I want to send some of our holiday photos to aunt Annie with your mom's iPad. Where can I plug it in? Dad." "Kilimanjaro, your father bought a book which I would like to read too. Could you tell us how to copy it to my iPad too? Love, mum"

"Hi Dad. You'll have to buy one of these http://images.apple.com/ipad/specs/images/usb_connectors_201... for the iPad, unless your camera has built-in uploading. Look on the box for a WiFi icon." "Hi mum. Plug your iPad into iTunes and click 'add device to authorized list' under the Advanced menu when dad is logged into his iTunes account."

"Hi mum. Plug your iPad into iTunes and click 'add device to authorized list' under the Advanced menu when dad is logged into his iTunes account."

That one actually isn't too hard to walk people through on the phone. I did it with my mom and dad for their iPod's a few months back. Took all of five minutes; most of which was waiting for the iPod's to finish syncing.

Re: IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

#46

Post by glhaynes »

CrLf wrote: post #4

The control that Apple has over the iPhone and the application distribution channel does contribute greatly to the iPhone's success. It makes the platform easily accessible to people who aren't inclined to search the internet for apps and are, in fact, afraid of doing it for all the malware experiences they have on their PCs. They know the App Store has everything, and that they can reasonably expect that the apps wo…

It is a beautiful device, but if the average Joe expects it to behave more like a standard computer than an iPhone, and if Apple doesn't make it more open, it may very well end up a failure.

Exactly what's appealing to the average Joe about the iPad IS that it acts more like an iPhone than a standard computer.

Re: IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

#47

Post by akmiller »

ovi256 wrote: post #25
akmiller wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For OSX, they give away development tools better than the ones microsoft charges ridiculous amounts of money for." People tend to make this claim and I just don't understand where it comes from. Microsoft has made available the express editions of Visual Studio for the last several years and they are pretty damn good.

The express edition can not be compared to XCode, which has a single edition (the full one).

I've been a windows developer for more than 15 years and I'd be hard pressed to find an app that I couldn't build with the express tools. The components missing are things I wouldn't use anyhow, that being the integration of Microsoft's version of unit testing, source control, etc... Granted I've only used XCode for the last year and a half or so, but I'd choose VS Express over XCode any day. Aside from that fact, I can't believe that any company puts more effort into their development tools than Microsoft and I think it shows, so if they want to charge for a product that is years beyond anything anyone else offers then that's fine by me.

Re: IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

#48

Post by orangecat »

rauljara wrote: post #10
alain wrote: post #3

The worst enemy of freedom in software is not Microsoft, it's Apple. You're pretty free to develop and distribute software as you want on Windows. On new Apple devices, they control the way the software is distributed, they tax you, they make you obey their rules. Imagine a world with appstore as the main way of distributing software for any kind of devices. This would be hell. This is where Apple is going. Stop usin…

This is only true of the iPad/iPhone ecosystem. For OSX, they give away development tools better than the ones microsoft charges ridiculous amounts of money for. Almost all apple-made software (even the kind they sell) doesn't even make you enter a license key. If you are honestly worried about a closed app store coming to OSX based on what Apple does with phones and devices that they clearly think of as large phones…

If you are honestly worried about a closed app store coming to OSX based on what Apple does with phones and devices that they clearly think of as large phones, you are paranoid.

Then I'm paranoid. Like Mark Pilgrim (http://diveintomark.org/archives/2010/01/29/tinkerers-sunset), I don't believe Apple will be selling general purpose computers to consumers in 10 years. Remember Steve Jobs's plan for Apple: "milk the Mac for all it's worth and then move on the next big thing". The next big thing is mobile computing, and Apple has made it clear that they want absolute control.

Re: IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

#49

Post by orangecat »

cpr wrote: post #37

His thoughts make a lot of sense, but I really wonder if he's not missing the forest for the trees, like a lot of writers on this subject. It's not the little hacks (e.g., font organizers, window minimizers) that are going to make or break this platform: it's going to be the immersive apps that capture people's imaginations. (And most "real people" don't care about OS hacks.) I know I've already got way too many kill…

Will Apple ever permit a full-blown non-Safari browser app in the store?

If it's just a WebKit wrapper, probably. If it's a different rendering engine, not a chance.

And will Apple ever permit an interactive programming tool like Smalltalk adapted for the touch screen, or (one of my ideas) a graphical meta-calculator building tool that ultimately allows the user to do "real" programming?

Smalltalk, no. Graphing calculators with variable assignments and stuff, sure as long as you can't create things that resemble real applications.

Ultimately, I think the answers are yes and yes, but the unsureness of those answers is troubling.

I'd be looking at developing for Android tablets, where you don't have to give the manufacturer a kill switch to your ideas. Or HTML5 if possible.

Re: IPad thoughts from Ben Fry (creator of Processing)

#50

Post by mos1 »

alain wrote: post #3

The worst enemy of freedom in software is not Microsoft, it's Apple. You're pretty free to develop and distribute software as you want on Windows. On new Apple devices, they control the way the software is distributed, they tax you, they make you obey their rules. Imagine a world with appstore as the main way of distributing software for any kind of devices. This would be hell. This is where Apple is going. Stop usin…

The worst enemy of freedom in software is not Apple, it's Nintendo. You're pretty free to develop and distribute software as you want on OS X. On new Nintendo devices, they control the way software is distributed, they tax you, they make you obey their rules. Imagine a world where all applications must be licensed and vetted by Nintendo, for all their devices. This would be hell. This is where Nintendo is going. Stop using Nintendo. Use Ball on a String, or if you can't, use Apple.
Post reply on HN