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A deportation at the UK border

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Re: A deportation at the UK border

#301
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why are you visiting Canada?" "On vacation." Done.

About sixteen years ago (I remember, because it was back before 9/11, when you could go to Canada without a passport) I got bored one weekend and drove up to Vancouver by myself. I got to the border, and answered the standard questions like "who do you know here" and "is this your car". Then the border agent asked me the purpose of my visit, and I said "uhhhh, tourism, ha ha". They let me in about an hour later after…

> I guess the moral of the story is come prepared and try to be convincing, because they can screw you over on a whim.

One of my favourite parts about driving to the border is going through scenarios with my passengers, and how to answer each question.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#302
post #128
post #111

Enough has been said about bad treatment by border guards about every country on earth so don't need to repeat it but I had the following exchange with a Canadian visa officer. Visa Officer:Your Name? How can I help you Me: Dr XYZ. I would like to apply for a visitor visa to Canada Visa Officer: Why would you like to go to Canada Me: I have been invited to speak at a conference Visa Officer: Hmm I see. Me: Is there a…

As a rule answers have to be as general as possible. The more specific information you give them voluntarily, the more they can find something to latch on and make your life miserable. Leave it up to them to ask more details. I wasn't a speaker at my last conference, but I could have been. But my conversation at the border was something like: "Why are you visiting Canada?" / "To go to a conference" / "Where is the co…

Good answers. If you're ever going to an "unconference", don't say that!

When US CBP asked if I was "presenting, or attending", I did NOT take the opportunity to explain that everyone was expected to participate and present :)

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#303
post #111

Enough has been said about bad treatment by border guards about every country on earth so don't need to repeat it but I had the following exchange with a Canadian visa officer. Visa Officer:Your Name? How can I help you Me: Dr XYZ. I would like to apply for a visitor visa to Canada Visa Officer: Why would you like to go to Canada Me: I have been invited to speak at a conference Visa Officer: Hmm I see. Me: Is there a…

On the other hand, most of my worst experiences with border agents were in Canadian airports. YMMV.

Are you Canadian? I think they bother the Canadians more.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#305

As someone whos job was to oranize visas for various countries around the world for some time, here is my advice. If you are doing this kind of semi-business/semi-pleasure/speak-at-aconference/whatever trips, just get a tourist visa. Everything else is a giant mess.

No. Or make sure you only state your purpose of entry as tourism. If you go to a conference in the US (merely for attending) you're entering for business purposes . If you have only a B-2 visa, you will be turned back

Depends where you're from (VWP allows attending conferences, company meetings, etc).

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#306
post #80
post #10

As much as I enjoy feeling superior to the British (spelling color with a 'u' is nothing short of pretentious) I would love to know if people from the UK suffer the same sort of troubles entering the US. As a US citizen I have found traveling to Canada and Australia to be a relatively pain free experience, but then Australians and Canadians are, in general, a whole lot nicer than Brits or Americans.

I'm often crossing all those borders and can say unequivocally that Canada and Australia have some of the absolutely most nasty border guards.

Canada is easily the worst. They're known for it.

I'm Australian so I wouldn't know.

US CBP = depends which airport you fly into. SFO = friendly, LAX = THE WORST. NYC = Also terrible.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#308
post #20

Not that I dont feel sorry for the author of the story, since this is terrible experience, no matter who experiences it, but as an American, a citizen of a country that has one of most restrictive and humiliating border procedures around the civilized world (try landing with valid visa on JFK as non American human being...) complaining at this sounds - well, odd.

Not everyone feels personally responsible for the actions of the country they happen to be born in.

They should because they decide the country's actions through their votes. For a democracy like the US or UK, at least.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#309
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confrontational questions are a usual tactic in such interrogations; the goal is not to get the answers, but to get the subject into an agitated state, so he would have a harder time lying about the real questions.

I wish more people understood this. When a border guard goes off on an a bizarre line of questioning, the intent is not simply to know the factual answers to those questions. Rather, it's to gauge your response and to disarm you mentally.

I'm pretty sure anyone who can maintain the façade of a bewildered old lady can survive under this line of questioning.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#310
"I told him point blank: there is nothing I can tell you to make you happy. I have to be very careful what information I volunteer, because if I talk too much, you get angry. And now if I don’t talk enough, you get angry."

It was over for her right here.

She came across as nervous, evasive, defensive and then antagonist. She is leaking privilege all over this post.

And she really was treated just like everyone else in detention. Of course she wasn't a terrorist, but she was being detained and that never feels good, nor is a hotel. That's reality.

Border agents have enormous latitude. Your attitude matters when dealing with any authority. Maybe it shouldn't, but there are roles here and when you step out of the expected role you start triggering something. How would she have spoken to a judge in a court of law?

Sure, she didn't deserve this, but she didn't do anything to improve her situation, either. It doesn't matter how little sleep she had, or how virtuous her cause, or whether she is a big deal in her industry. It's naive to think that any of this is relevant, frankly.

No border guard cares about your self-perception of virtue. They are about tax avoidance and illegal immigration. And just like a pediatrician develops the ability to instantly detect a "funny looking kid," a border guard who sees thousands and thousands of people has similar behavioral flags.

"I'm here for a conference."

"What topic?"

"Web development."

"How long are you staying?"

"One week."

"What else will you be doing?"

"I will do a little sightseeing while I'm here."

"Have a good stay."

CLUNK

No lies, nothing cagey in this. There are bins and categories; don't do anything that puts you into a special bin. It's not that hard. Be like the other thousand people they saw this week who are attending a conference.

I travel all over the world to speak at conferences. Apart from China and Russia, I never mess around with invitation letters or special papers. I am calm and matter of fact, and so is the border agent. Each of us plays our role and then we move along.

"I'm here for a conference." Which is true.

FFS, I live in the US and my wife (a Finn) has a UK permanent residency and works in London. I go back and forth about six times a year, I stay for weeks. When they ask the purpose of my visit I simply say, "I'm visiting my wife." I'm friendly and calm.

"Are you planning to immigrate?"

"Maybe some day."

I thought being married to a UK resident would be a flag, but it actually isn't. They care about illegal immigration and tax avoidance because that is their job. I am calm, even friendly, and I don't trigger any suspicion. I finally applied for Frequent Traveler status and now just use the UK /EU electronic gates. That wasn't hard, either. Didn't even need to give a reason for that!

Don't be defensive, don't provoke suspicion, don't volunteer unnecessary details. Don't lie, but be shrewd about this situation. Don't trigger special handling.

OP does seem to express a bit of a special snowflake tone in her piece. Privilege. Not a good vibe once they are triggered. Earnest humility is the tone you want to adopt. That is proper etiquette given the real power differential. This isn't being subordinate, it's just like being in court. Respect the judge. This border agent is actually judging you--that's their job.

None of what happened to her was personal and no one here was ever going to say, "well, you seem like a decent person doing good work; I guess we can just fudge this a teeny bit." They can't and won't do that, and frankly, her attitude probably evoked a little contempt, thus reducing her chances for even what teeny latitude she might have had.

Her experience was exactly what people who expect to get a little special handling have when they encounter faceless rule-driven systems. "But this is ME! Why are you doing this to ME?"

People without privilege have no such illusions and understand these situations.

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