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A deportation at the UK border

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Re: A deportation at the UK border

#241

Post by petercooper »

davb wrote: post #114

I'm Scottish, and I absolutely detest traveling through Heathrow. The security and border controls there are some of the most oppressive I've ever encountered. Depending on where you're flying, that could include multiple baggage searches and multiple biometric photos (flying OUT of the UK, I counted three - security, a secondary queue before entering the terminal concourse, and at the gate). Questioning why you're b…

At the end, the guy asked for my passport and attached a "Security cleared" sticker to it.

FWIW, Virgin has slapped tons of these on my passport without such an interview. They appear to be applied once you have answered the mandatory questions around your baggage (i.e. did you pack it yourself? are there any prohibited items?)

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#242

Post by petercooper »

kybernetikos wrote: post #21
fhood wrote: post #10

As much as I enjoy feeling superior to the British (spelling color with a 'u' is nothing short of pretentious) I would love to know if people from the UK suffer the same sort of troubles entering the US. As a US citizen I have found traveling to Canada and Australia to be a relatively pain free experience, but then Australians and Canadians are, in general, a whole lot nicer than Brits or Americans.

I actively avoid the US these days because the last time I went, we spent ages in a queue being shouted at by irate border control folk and then were required to have our fingerprints taken. This was just for a vacation.

This isn't common knowledge amongst travellers, but if you have travelled to the US at least once since 2008 and have a valid ESTA, you can use automated passport control like the US citizens now - saves a ton of time and from having to queue up in the longer line.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#243

Post by kaitai »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #100

This is a horrible experience that she went through, but one quote stuck out: > The room’s only other occupants were men. I do not feel comfortable in rooms full of men I do not know with the door closed. Why? This doesn't make sense. What does she think is going to happen? Are most men really presumed to be rapists or something?

Because if something goes south, who is going to back you up?

It's just a probabilistic calculation based on experience. A lot of guys won't step up if another guy starts harassing you, because they'll be bowing to the pressure of the crowd and out of "politeness" to their male compatriots won't say anything. If there were several women in there to start with, it would be less likely that harassment would start and more likely that someone would intervene, although it's by no means guaranteed.

We're not talking about rape, here. It's as simple as the creepy conversations that start, "Hey, honey, why're you in here? What's your name?" and proceed to boundary-pushing that you physically can't escape from in a small room like that. And none of the other guys are going to intervene with that, because they're not going to see it as boundary-pushing and harassment. (Hell, my own husband has said, "What's wrong with that, he's just trying to make conversation!" when there's been that sliding a little closer, trying to get personal details, what's your name where do you live what did you come here for do you have a boyfriend.) Another woman might notice and deflect. I certainly have.

Many guys would say, what's wrong with being forced into a conversation in a locked room? It's the lack of choice, the lack of escape. Being forced to deal with monitoring whether you'll be safe, whether the interaction is innocuous or not, what you're revealing, again how it could be used against you, the cajoling if you don't want to talk ("smile! it can't be that bad! I just want to talk! at least you're getting out soon... where are you going?") at 30 hours without sleep -- just not fun.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#244

Post by olalonde »

paulsutter wrote: post #178

This is a great article on how /not/ to talk to immigration officials, anywhere. I don't defend any heavy-handed attitude of the officers. It's just useful to understand the purpose behind the process. > the young immigrations officer at LHR was very inquisitive about this old friend I was going to meet while I was in London for a conference: Who was he? Where did he live? What was our relationship? My awkward answer…

> He doesn't want to hear what makes him happy, he wants to hear the facts.

This is almost certainly not true (or he probably couldn't let anyone through according to protocol). They often just want to hear the right words spoken at the right times. See the top comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11877590) as a blatant (but positive) example of this.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#245

Post by frabbit »

gsnedders wrote: post #126
tptacek wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, border crossings have been like this since long before the PATRIOT act. Computer scientists were turned away at the borders trying to fly in to give Black Hat talks; I worked for a Canadian company and had strict instructions to tell the Canadian border people I was traveling to see friends, and so on. This has nothing to do with terrorism. It has to do with visa classifications, and the skittishness of countries…

Also: as a reminder, the UK has long been concerned about people smuggling arms and the like for the sake of terrorism: the majority of arms used by the IRA originated in the US for decades before 9/11 (after which the US supply largely dried up, as did US funding of such terrorist groups).

And the majority of the arms used by loyalist paramilitaries came from South Africa via the UK security forces.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#246

Post by panglott »

germanier wrote: post #164
panglott wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't "her mistake", in the sense that the crucial difference "giving a talk at a conference" and "attending a conference" have meaning within the bureaucracy that is totally inscrutable to outsiders. She was being judged at a trial with secret rules.

That difference (getting paid) is spelt out quite clearly on the UK Home Office's website and is certainly not a secret. Failure to check upon requirements does not excuse her even if personally thinking that a policy change is needed.

The difference (as described in her post) was that the conference was sponsored by a German organization, not a UK-based one, and that was not detailed on the Web site.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#247

Post by davb »

petercooper wrote: post #241
davb wrote: post #114

I'm Scottish, and I absolutely detest traveling through Heathrow. The security and border controls there are some of the most oppressive I've ever encountered. Depending on where you're flying, that could include multiple baggage searches and multiple biometric photos (flying OUT of the UK, I counted three - security, a secondary queue before entering the terminal concourse, and at the gate). Questioning why you're b…

At the end, the guy asked for my passport and attached a "Security cleared" sticker to it. FWIW, Virgin has slapped tons of these on my passport without such an interview. They appear to be applied once you have answered the mandatory questions around your baggage (i.e. did you pack it yourself? are there any prohibited items?)

That's what I initially thought, but he didn't ask anything about my luggage. That would have made it too obvious it was a security interview.

We were asked the standard baggage questions by the check-in agent. The ICTS thing was something completely different and new to us.

When we got to the gate, the same group of covert screeners were there waiting for us and doing additional screening.

I showed my passport to the gate agent, took three steps (past the desk, onto the jet bridge, and had to show it again to ICTS contractor. It seemed ridiculous and redundant. By this point, I'd shown my passport at least five times (ICTS queue interview, check-in desk, security, gate, ICTS again).

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#248

Post by fredley »

jcoffland wrote: post #165
fredley wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not justifying what goes on there, but I happen to know someone who works in the immigration detention centre at one of the major UK airports. This article is right: you do not want to end up there. He is a guard at the centre, and must deal with the business of (sometimes forcefully) removing people from the UK who have been denied entry. He has dealt with people from almost every country in the world in this re…

"You cannot expect people to maintain racial or cultural blindness in such a situation." If not in this situation then when? We must place expectations on people in positions of power over others to treat all people fairly regardless of race. People should be judged by their actions. Those in positions of power who violate the trust we put in them should be punished.

I'm not trying to justify it, just explaining the reality. Human nature is a powerful thing, and there's only so much anyone can bend it to their will, especially when they're on a relatively low wage in a highly stressful job. I don't know what the solution is. Of course I agree that in an ideal world everyone is treated fairly, but if we want to make that a reality I think we'd need to radically review how these systems and processes work. These biases are universal, it's not just the UK, nobody has come up with a viable solution yet.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#249

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

BjoernKW wrote: post #104

Unfortunately, I suppose this is exactly what we (meaning the electorate who voted since 2001) wanted. By allowing politicians to pass bills like the Patriot Act (which started this whole mess and quickly brought about similar security and surveillance laws in at least every other country that's on friendly terms with the US) we brought this kind of treatment on ourselves. How can one establish organizations like the…

> The aspect of a German company paying her in British pounds. shouldn't be a problem at all.

As far as I know in Germany the same rule applies as in Austria: you need to have the amount in EUR on the invoice at least in addition of another currency with an exchange rate.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#250

Post by 1024core »

2skep wrote: post #111

Enough has been said about bad treatment by border guards about every country on earth so don't need to repeat it but I had the following exchange with a Canadian visa officer. Visa Officer:Your Name? How can I help you Me: Dr XYZ. I would like to apply for a visitor visa to Canada Visa Officer: Why would you like to go to Canada Me: I have been invited to speak at a conference Visa Officer: Hmm I see. Me: Is there a…

Canadian border guards are the best.

I remember once we were traveling by road to Waterloo, to meet some buddies. We picked up those 1.5L bottles of booze, one each. That's 6L of booze in the car. At the Buffalo border, the dialog went like this:

Guard: where are you going?

We: Niagara Falls, just for the evening (we were afraid that they might now allow us in if we admitted to partying in Waterloo)

Guard: are you bringing in anything?

We: This booze.

Guard: As a gift for someone?

We: No, just for ourselves.

Guard: (incredulously) You'll drink that by yourselves?

We: Yes.

Guard: (rolls eyes) OK, come on in.

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