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A deportation at the UK border

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Re: A deportation at the UK border

#111

Post by 2skep »

Enough has been said about bad treatment by border guards about every country on earth so don't need to repeat it but I had the following exchange with a Canadian visa officer.

Visa Officer:Your Name? How can I help you Me: Dr XYZ. I would like to apply for a visitor visa to Canada Visa Officer: Why would you like to go to Canada Me: I have been invited to speak at a conference Visa Officer: Hmm I see. Me: Is there a problem? Visa Officer: You see, you are not allowed to do public speaking on a visitor visa. You will have to apply a visa for public speaking which takes longer and requires additional formalities and checks. Me: Oh, I see. I am surprised that is the case, I go around the world to conferences and it seems unusual in Canada. Visa Officer: Can I ask you a question Me: Sure Visa Officer (with a smile): Would you say that your main purpose of applying the visa is to attend the conference and you will be sharing your professional and not political views. Me: Yes. Absolutely! Visa Officer: You should then get a visitor visa which will be ready tomorrow after 4. Remember, when asked say that you are attending the conference. Enjoy Canada

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#112

Post by janpieterz »

gsnedders wrote: post #109
prashnts wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your fingerprints (all 10), iris scan, and photograph will be taken each time you apply for a UK Visa. Same goes for USA, so it did not come as a surprise, too. (I have an Indian Passport) What my worry is, though, that all of the application processes are outsourced to VFS Global[0] for both USA and UK, and I can't help but be skeptic about it. [0] http://www.vfsglobal.com/

However, the majority of foreigners entering both the UK and US do so without a visa, as far as I'm aware. In the UK case, typically no fingerprints are taken, whereas in the US they are.

Been to both countries a couple of times (I'm Dutch). Fingerprints got taken every time at the US, never happened to me at the UK border.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#113

Post by maxerickson »

Johnny555 wrote: post #99
DanBC wrote: post #84

I'm sorry she had a terrible experience. But the visa requirements are pretty clear, and she needed a standard visa. Here's the "do you need a visa" website. https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa Walk through it. She's from the USA. She's travelling for work, academic or business. She's planning to stay less than six months. Here's the result: https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/usa/work/six_months_or_le... You don't need…

She's an animation artist giving a talk about an web animation API, doesn't that fall under If you’re invited as an expert ...take part in arts, entertainment or sporting activities ?

You'd have to ask the government if the conference is a qualifying arts activity (maybe they consider it something else).

The requirements don't make a lot of sense to me, but it is clear enough that obtaining the visa beforehand, just to be sure, is the path of least resistance (and the conference should probably take the lead in figuring it out).

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#114

Post by davb »

I'm Scottish, and I absolutely detest traveling through Heathrow. The security and border controls there are some of the most oppressive I've ever encountered.

Depending on where you're flying, that could include multiple baggage searches and multiple biometric photos (flying OUT of the UK, I counted three - security, a secondary queue before entering the terminal concourse, and at the gate). Questioning why you're being photographed (let alone asking about data retention policies) just invites further scrutiny and questioning.

Recently I had my bag emptied (I wasn't allowed to unpack it carefully) and was questioned very rigorously as to why I was carrying so many cables (I had a micro-USB cable to charge my phone, a laptop charger, and an HDMI cable to watch some Netflix at the hotel). I had to justify each item in my bag.

The attitude is the worst part. I feel like I'm being treated like a criminal and have to prove that I'm not. Every time I travel in or out, I feel the anxiety rise. It's difficult to explain.

That's not to suggest Glasgow Intl Airport is much better. Flying to the US last month, I check-in queues for AA were enormous. Some staff (I assumed they were customer service agents trying to keep the queuing travellers happy) were walking up and down, chatting with people.

They cheerily asked "Where are you going?". "Oh that's exciting. Have you been before? I love that city! Did you have to save up much spending money for an 8 day trip? What are you planning to do when you're there?"

As the questions went on, I got more suspicious.

"What do you do for a living? Oh that sounds exciting. Did you grow up in Glasgow? What about your fiancée, what does she do? Oh, you got engaged in the US? How long was that trip and what did you see when you were there?"

At the end, the guy asked for my passport and attached a "Security cleared" sticker to it.

I'd been surreptitiously interviewed and subject to behavioural profiling by staff from a contractor named ICTS [1]. It wasn't a good feeling. I felt deceived. It felt like they were putting a friendly face on trying to catch me out.

This only seemed to be happening in the AA line, and I've never been subject to this sort of interview in the past.

Does this actually work? I'd assume that any determined terrorist or trouble-maker would have a big smile and a well-rehearsed story.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICTS_International

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#115

Post by adaml_623 »

gsnedders wrote: post #109
prashnts wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your fingerprints (all 10), iris scan, and photograph will be taken each time you apply for a UK Visa. Same goes for USA, so it did not come as a surprise, too. (I have an Indian Passport) What my worry is, though, that all of the application processes are outsourced to VFS Global[0] for both USA and UK, and I can't help but be skeptic about it. [0] http://www.vfsglobal.com/

However, the majority of foreigners entering both the UK and US do so without a visa, as far as I'm aware. In the UK case, typically no fingerprints are taken, whereas in the US they are.

Lol. The 'Visa Waiver' is a visa. It's just an electronic one.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#116

Post by gsnedders »

DanBC wrote: post #67
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #41

Stepping slightly back from this particular horrible experience, I don't understand _why_ this particular set of institutional rules are in place. Was there a thought that foreign speakers who were subsidized by foreign governments were inciting rebellion? Are there tax issues? Was this some big money laundering loophole or something? Is there a concern that people were using this as figleaf to immigrate illegally?

Pretty much any country has separate entry rules for people travelling for leisure or work. She was travelling for work. She, and the conference, failed to get good enough legal advice about the travel requirements. Here' the page she links to: https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/usa/work/six_months_or_le... Read that and tell me you'd travel how she did without getting more advice. > If you’re invited as an expert >…

From her screenshot (with pretty different wording) and the footer ("Last updated: 9 June 2016") it's clear that that page has substantially changed since, which is unfortunate (although definitely clearer now!).

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#117

Post by arcticbull »

growt wrote: post #12

Just a small remark: If you're visiting the USA your fingerprints get taken every time (at least thats my experience). So that part of the story (an american complaining that their fingerprints got taken in the UK) is kind of skewed perspective.

I've lived in the US for 6 years, first as a TN then as an H-1B, and I have Global Entry (and NEXUS). My favorite welcome back to the US is a a little note at the bottom of the receipt the Global Entry kiosk prints every time I show up:

"Warning.... an alien that accepts unauthorized employment is subject to deportation"

Thanks guys, it's great to be back ^_^

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#118

Post by tptacek »

BjoernKW wrote: post #104

Unfortunately, I suppose this is exactly what we (meaning the electorate who voted since 2001) wanted. By allowing politicians to pass bills like the Patriot Act (which started this whole mess and quickly brought about similar security and surveillance laws in at least every other country that's on friendly terms with the US) we brought this kind of treatment on ourselves. How can one establish organizations like the…

No, border crossings have been like this since long before the PATRIOT act. Computer scientists were turned away at the borders trying to fly in to give Black Hat talks; I worked for a Canadian company and had strict instructions to tell the Canadian border people I was traveling to see friends, and so on.

This has nothing to do with terrorism. It has to do with visa classifications, and the skittishness of countries about people visiting (or, the concern is, immigrating) to do work.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#119

Post by gsnedders »

gravypod wrote: post #103
DanBC wrote: post #84

I'm sorry she had a terrible experience. But the visa requirements are pretty clear, and she needed a standard visa. Here's the "do you need a visa" website. https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa Walk through it. She's from the USA. She's travelling for work, academic or business. She's planning to stay less than six months. Here's the result: https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/usa/work/six_months_or_le... You don't need…

That site seems fairly clear. Where was the site that the author posted a photo from? It seemed to be less informative. Are there two conflicting sites maintained by the government?

The same page, but note the "Last updated: 9 June 2016". The page has substantially changed since.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#120

Post by daenney »

icebraining wrote: post #58
intoverflow2 wrote: post #43

Pretty much the same sort of experience you'd get travelling any international borders.

Except inside the Schengen Area. Every time I travel I realize how lucky I am to have this freedom (and wary of political movements trying to kill it).

This. Every time I travel within Schengen it's so easy. And when I need to move for work too. I spent about 30m at a government facility in the exiting country to unregister and another 30 at the entering country to get the equivalent of my social security number. Most of this can even be done over the internet.
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