Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A deportation at the UK border

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 329 posts

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#221

Post by golergka »

Manishearth wrote: post #199
Camillo wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Old helpless people" are actually a risky category at border crossings. Elderly parents are brought in on a tourist visa, then they stay illegally and end up costing the country money for social services. Of course border controls would try to prevent that.

Right, except the questions asked weren't relevant to that (i don't remember what they were; this was years ago -- I remember my mom saying that they were confrontational and more focused on figuring out if the old people were terrorists)

Confrontational questions are a usual tactic in such interrogations; the goal is not to get the answers, but to get the subject into an agitated state, so he would have a harder time lying about the real questions.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#222

Post by golergka »

stupidcar wrote: post #143
mpeg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about lying, it's about giving only the information requested. "I'm attending a conference" would have been ok too, or even "I'm travelling for business" - I've used both in the US without the border agent asking any more questions. When you volunteer a lot of information you come across as nervous, and sketchy

Sorry, but this is just victim blaming. Innocent people should not have to avoid being truthful or complete in their answers just to avoid arousing "suspicion". Innocent people should not have to know ahead-of-time that giving honest and complete answers to an official will lead to this kind of treatment. This kind of treatment should not be acceptable under any circumstances for people who are actually innocent and/…

Blaming is one thing. Saying that certain actions lead to certain outcomes is another.

Moral responsibility and causality are two different things.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#223

Post by icebraining »

School-Cotton wrote: post #195
icebraining wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except inside the Schengen Area. Every time I travel I realize how lucky I am to have this freedom (and wary of political movements trying to kill it).

It doesn't make sense to compare going from France to Germany with going from France to the US. A better comparison would be France to Germany vs. California to Arizona. Both European states and US states are sovereign political entities with their own laws and territory, but with an agreement for freedom of movement. (the US constitution in one case; the Schengen agreement in the other).

The affirmation that US states are sovereign is not unanimously agreed upon :)

That said, even if that's technically true, I think it blurs the history, which is part of what makes it feel special. An US citizen takes that border crossing for granted since birth, but as an European, I'm aware that my grandmother already as an adult had to cross it clandestinely, at the risk of her own life, and even my parents still had to pass through customs and declare the purpose of their trip. I'm the first generation of my family for whom crossing the border is truly a free experience.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#224

Post by [deleted] »

gaius wrote: post #121
kintamanimatt wrote: post #100

This is a horrible experience that she went through, but one quote stuck out: > The room’s only other occupants were men. I do not feel comfortable in rooms full of men I do not know with the door closed. Why? This doesn't make sense. What does she think is going to happen? Are most men really presumed to be rapists or something?

And American businessmen I stood next to in line at immigration? Perhaps they had companies like IBM and Microsoft backing them, legitimizing their travel and threatening big trouble for anyone interfering. Two women I honestly do not think that gender had anything to do with this, and it's a little weird to shoehorn it in.

[deleted]

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#225

Post by Manishearth »

golergka wrote: post #219
Manishearth wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of times the corral of shame contains old helpless people too, who seem to have been deliberately put there for the pleasure of the corral ranchers. I and my family were traveling back home to Boston. Coincidentally, the Indian grandparents of close friends of ours were on the same flight to visit said friends. Like most old Indian ladies, the grandma was wearing traditional clothes (nothing fancy). They didn't…

Not questioning the facts of your story, but how did you arrive at a conclusion on officer's motives?

Because they were trying to find out if obviously helpless old people were terrorists, and asking questions geared towards that.

It's possible they didn't have any motive, and the composition of that room was just a fluke. But I don't think it's likely.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#226

Post by frabbit »

droopybuns wrote: post #26

The writing style is muddled and kind of hard to read. I'm sorry this happened to her, but it seems like she could be a candidate for a perfect storm of miscommunication.

I thought the writing style was pretty clear at conveying the disturbing, unsettling nature of an experience like this. I don't think it was miscommunication though: it was an exercise of the arbitrary power held by bureaucrats. Every day it is exercised, sometimes in a reasonable way, sometimes not. We usually only hear about it when it's one of "us" getting shafted.

If it's Group 4 Security strangling a black man on a deportation flight, you might get to hear about it... and then forget a couple of years later.

I thought the article was good at asking us all to think about how much power we want to invest in a bureaucracy. They always want more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3dDNPwJTU

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#227

Post by saalweachter »

eitally wrote: post #196
leovonl wrote: post #166

Funny, my experience as South American is the exact opposite: expensive USA VISA (USD 160!) for attending a conference, US border asking about everything, checking my story and even knowledge about programming (!), etc - UK border just asking the purpose of my travel, stamping the passport and saying "welcome to UK". And I didn't even need a VISA. One thing for sure is: you have to know the visa requirements and you…

If it makes you feel better, when Bush put that policy in place the Brazilian government was quick to institute a reciprocal fee, and the Brazilian immigration agents can be a royal pain for foreigners to deal with (I had a colleague get rejected at border entry once for a stupid, stupid reason).

I've heard the story of an American going through the reciprocal process in Brazil -- getting finger printed, interviewed, all sorts of documents generated -- and then having the interviewer confess that they were just going to throw it all away because they didn't actually have anything to do with the reciprocally generated data...

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#228

Post by brobinson »

eitally wrote: post #196
leovonl wrote: post #166

Funny, my experience as South American is the exact opposite: expensive USA VISA (USD 160!) for attending a conference, US border asking about everything, checking my story and even knowledge about programming (!), etc - UK border just asking the purpose of my travel, stamping the passport and saying "welcome to UK". And I didn't even need a VISA. One thing for sure is: you have to know the visa requirements and you…

If it makes you feel better, when Bush put that policy in place the Brazilian government was quick to institute a reciprocal fee, and the Brazilian immigration agents can be a royal pain for foreigners to deal with (I had a colleague get rejected at border entry once for a stupid, stupid reason).

Don't leave us hanging... what was the stupid, stupid reason?

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#229

Post by erdojo »

jackgavigan wrote: post #7

Unfortunately, like other countries, the UK's Border Force[1] clearly has an above-average share of incompetents and bullies. If you give such people any power whatsoever, they will abuse it. Sadly, that's what happened here. The real problem is that there is no accountability in these organisations. Even if a complaint by Rachel triggered an investigation, the culture in organisations like this is to protect their o…

How was power abused? It sounds like she broke the rules, even if the rules were poorly explained in the first place.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#230

Post by vinceguidry »

tobltobs wrote: post #217
vinceguidry wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me personally, I would be sure to bring nothing with me across a border that could give a customs official anything to pester me about. This varies depending on the geopolitics of the region. I don't have to worry about wiping my laptop when traveling to Latin America, but I would absolutely do so if I were going to the UK. I certainly would not bring any documents. If I really needed hard copies, then beforehand I w…

Sure, and I guess the speaker list problem could be avoided by using a faked passport. Edit: can't add a reply to the followup question anymore. So I add it here. Google, all your 007 travel style will break down if the find your name via Google on the speaker list.

> if the find your name via Google on the speaker list.

They'd first need me to give them a reason to Google my name.

If you're nondescript, then you don't arouse this kind of suspicion in the first place.

Post reply on HN