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A deportation at the UK border

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Re: A deportation at the UK border

#121

Post by gaius »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #100

This is a horrible experience that she went through, but one quote stuck out: > The room’s only other occupants were men. I do not feel comfortable in rooms full of men I do not know with the door closed. Why? This doesn't make sense. What does she think is going to happen? Are most men really presumed to be rapists or something?

And

American businessmen I stood next to in line at immigration? Perhaps they had companies like IBM and Microsoft backing them, legitimizing their travel and threatening big trouble for anyone interfering. Two women

I honestly do not think that gender had anything to do with this, and it's a little weird to shoehorn it in.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#122

Post by rdtsc »

> “Never tell them you’re coming for anything but tourism.”

> When I was finally able to talk to my husband again, one of the very first things he told me was, “Don’t blame yourself for being truthful.”

Very true. Your response goes into a "bin" (or a checkmark on a form). There are only so many bins there. One for terrorists, one for migrant workers, one for tourists. Self employed web developers, who are paid by a German company, do not fit in any of the bins. But they'll still try to pick one.

The lesson bureaucracy is teaching people is to lie. Even though officially on paper they warn people to tell the truth. To put it another way. Consider who you are talking to and decide if they can handle the truth. A bureaucracy and its minions cannot handle it. Or rather, they'll handle it at your detriment.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#123

Post by eitally »

Zikes wrote: post #39
jbob2000 wrote: post #16

This was her mistake: "..where a young man somberly asked me what brought me to the UK. “I’m giving a talk at a conference then traveling to see a bit of England. I have a letter of invitation,” I replied, confidently handing over the requested documents." Just say "A short vacation", whether it is or not. Don't give the agent any more information than they need. Throughout her entire encounter with the agents, she w…

"Being compliant and truthful with the authorities in a routine border crossing was her mistake." Whether or not it "just works", or how often people do it, that is just insane.

But the agents don't actually want to know why people are traveling. Knowing that forces them to actually do something that isn't routine, which is annoying and a time sink. It's better to withhold information unless explicitly requested, to simplify and streamline the flow for both you as passenger and they as agents.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#124

Post by icebraining »

omonra wrote: post #90
icebraining wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it illegal to work for money while claiming you're just doing tourism? Seems like it could get her denied from future visits.

When dealing with a rigid system built on stupid rules it's better to avoid direct confrontation. She would have a 0.1% chance of being denied future visits vs the 50% chance of going through the experience she faced.

Are you saying that 50% of the US visitors to the UK who say anything other than "short vacation" get that experience? I frankly find that hard to believe.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#125

Post by TheAnimus »

rdtsc wrote: post #122

> “Never tell them you’re coming for anything but tourism.” > When I was finally able to talk to my husband again, one of the very first things he told me was, “Don’t blame yourself for being truthful.” Very true. Your response goes into a "bin" (or a checkmark on a form). There are only so many bins there. One for terrorists, one for migrant workers, one for tourists. Self employed web developers, who are paid by a…

It's also about having very correct details in this case.

If she had bothered to apply for the correct VISA there wouldn't have been an issue, but they clearly feel they are a special little snowflake because animation API is more important than a standardised work VISA system.

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with your assertion. Honesty and preparation IS the best policy. Imagine if I'd lied when I was detained in Tampa because of some missing clearance the US Embassy in London had forgotten to do. I had to wait hours in a holding area. I'd paid $200 USD for that. One little lie and the situation would have been far worse.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#126

Post by gsnedders »

tptacek wrote: post #118
BjoernKW wrote: post #104

Unfortunately, I suppose this is exactly what we (meaning the electorate who voted since 2001) wanted. By allowing politicians to pass bills like the Patriot Act (which started this whole mess and quickly brought about similar security and surveillance laws in at least every other country that's on friendly terms with the US) we brought this kind of treatment on ourselves. How can one establish organizations like the…

No, border crossings have been like this since long before the PATRIOT act. Computer scientists were turned away at the borders trying to fly in to give Black Hat talks; I worked for a Canadian company and had strict instructions to tell the Canadian border people I was traveling to see friends, and so on. This has nothing to do with terrorism. It has to do with visa classifications, and the skittishness of countries…

Also: as a reminder, the UK has long been concerned about people smuggling arms and the like for the sake of terrorism: the majority of arms used by the IRA originated in the US for decades before 9/11 (after which the US supply largely dried up, as did US funding of such terrorist groups).

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#127

Post by syrrim »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #40
bluehazed wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, I've literally never had this happen (Canada -> USA). I totally believe it, but now I'm wondering about in what cases this policy is applied.

> I've literally never had this happen (Canada -> USA). Did you fly in? I imagine it only happens at airports, not at land borders (I'm from the UK and I had my fingerprints taken at JFK)

I flew from Canada into La Guardia recently and didn't have fingerprints taken.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#128

Post by rdtsc »

2skep wrote: post #111

Enough has been said about bad treatment by border guards about every country on earth so don't need to repeat it but I had the following exchange with a Canadian visa officer. Visa Officer:Your Name? How can I help you Me: Dr XYZ. I would like to apply for a visitor visa to Canada Visa Officer: Why would you like to go to Canada Me: I have been invited to speak at a conference Visa Officer: Hmm I see. Me: Is there a…

As a rule answers have to be as general as possible. The more specific information you give them voluntarily, the more they can find something to latch on and make your life miserable.

Leave it up to them to ask more details. I wasn't a speaker at my last conference, but I could have been. But my conversation at the border was something like: "Why are you visiting Canada?" / "To go to a conference" / "Where is the conference?" / "Downtown" / "How long will you stay?" / "3 days" / "Ok, welcome to Canada".

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#129

Post by prashnts »

gsnedders wrote: post #109
prashnts wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your fingerprints (all 10), iris scan, and photograph will be taken each time you apply for a UK Visa. Same goes for USA, so it did not come as a surprise, too. (I have an Indian Passport) What my worry is, though, that all of the application processes are outsourced to VFS Global[0] for both USA and UK, and I can't help but be skeptic about it. [0] http://www.vfsglobal.com/

However, the majority of foreigners entering both the UK and US do so without a visa, as far as I'm aware. In the UK case, typically no fingerprints are taken, whereas in the US they are.

Providing biometrics at the Border is still at some level okay, of course, assuming that their data security can be trusted.

At VFS Global, however, I see the "visa interviewer"[0] struggling to handle the computers, and can't help but be worried about how they'll be transmitting and storing that data. My personal experience with Indian firms handling data hasn't been good and I certainly do not trust them[1].

[0] They're also Indians, and employed by the firm. [1] I have only this anecdote -- I am not sure about how it is done elsewhere.

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