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It’s cheaper to build multiple native applications than one responsive web app

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Re: It’s cheaper to build multiple native applications than one responsive web app

#291

Post by jokoon »

wvenable wrote: post #232
jokoon wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But maybe those progressive enhancements are not good ideas either. HTML just enabled to penetrate the microsoft platform. HTML was designed for static documents, not web apps.

So argument isn't so much that we should have binary HTML but we should actually just run Java* apps in a sandbox. I'd say there is merit to that argument and we'll probably get there the long way around. Perhaps webassembly will succeed where Java applets failed. * Or your virtual platform of choice.

Sandboxed apps are not really a good thing IMO. I agree that webassembly is a good thing too.

BUT, my critic is about the DOM and the text-only approach, and also HTML not being strict enough so that all browsers can use it. It is the same compromise between having a compiled or an interpreted language. A compiled language will always be faster and smaller. If you put the burden on a HTML compiler instead of how the browser displays a binary document, you won't have those issues.

Re: It’s cheaper to build multiple native applications than one responsive web app

#293

Post by alkonaut »

donatj wrote: post #66

I don't think that's remotely true if you keep the responsive web app simple. YNGNI and KISS and what not. I've been doing this for over ten years. In that time I've seen large web applications built for under 4k; I've also seen massively overbuilt simple applications go for 50k+. It comes down to often how needlessly complex you make the stack. If you stick with solid simple guaranteed tech instead of cutting edge y…

> 95% of web apps have two jobs. Present text to the user, take text from the user. Everything else is a nice to have.

I think this misses a key point - with mobile sites to be useful they have to be convenient enough to not make me wait until I'm next to my keyboard to do the task. Being convenient and easy to use is THE CORE FEATURE of mobile web apps, because they compete with using a full size web page on a laptop, in a few hours.

Take a simple, and pretty common scenario as an example -- booking an airplane ticket. The text I'm inputting is my name, address, frequent flyer number and credit card details, plus some dates etc. Also the same data for family members that are flying with me. Not a ton of data but it's a lot to type on a touchscreen and parts of it is sensitive information.

With the native airline app my details are pre-filled if I ever booked a flight before. With a web app the pre-filling of data is either dependent on a web login to the site (not acceptable) or on a browser form filling wizard (hit and miss, at best). I can book a ticket for me and the entire family with 10 taps on the screen in the native app, and on a mobile web app I have done over 30 taps before I even logged in!

I could of course book the same ticket using the mobile web app - but it's a pain. The native mobile app is way better than a desktop web app, and the mobile web app is only ever as good as the desktop web app, but always lacking in input because the keyboard is missing.

So yes - mobile web apps can be easy. They don't need a lot of fluff to get the work done. The problem is that they then are often completely unnecessary.

Even something as simple as typing an email address is a chore on mobile, so logging in in CompanyX using email+password is usually enough to postpone my transaction with them until I'm at my proper keyboard.

Re: It’s cheaper to build multiple native applications than one responsive web app

#294

Post by saiprashanth93 »

hypercluster wrote: post #147
needz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar experience here using Meteor + Ionic, exported with Cordova. I also feel like the skills I'm developing in web development are much more widely applicable than learning a particular mobile OS.

I often hear this. I tend tp agree but what exactly do you mean? That Javascript is used more widely?

Exactly this. I guess for people who have built their careers building mobile apps they couldn't care less about more rounded skills(in relation to web at least), its mostly full stack/back-end devs who know JS seem to state this. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Re: It’s cheaper to build multiple native applications than one responsive web app

#295

Post by podcastrank »

donw wrote: post #240

I can speak with some knowledge of a not-insignificant B2C company -- not my current gig -- that went down this exact same route some years ago. Swore off mobile web in favor of pushing people to the app, because app conversions were much higher. A satellite office broke away from the fold and implemented a responsive mobile site, immediately increasing their bottom-line revenue by 30%... and that's before doing any…

exactly, http://www.recode.net/2016/6/8/11883518/app-boom-over-snapch...

Alternatives are webapp's or even building chat bots/apps on messenger platforms. This progressive mobile webapp example is impressive http://www.flipkart.com/

Re: It’s cheaper to build multiple native applications than one responsive web app

#296

Post by graycat »

pmontra wrote: post #281
graycat wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you are correct. For my startup, I've assumed you are correct. Since my startup is my first Web site, I'm no expert in the issues in the OP here. So, HELP! Guys here who know more than I do about Web apps on different Web browsers on different client devices, which is nearly everyone on HN, help me out here -- am I on or off track? Where am I going wrong? So, what I've built is just a Web site ( Web app ). For…

Given the karma and the comments of the previous years I think you're being somewhat ironic. 400,000 bits, table layout and all the rest, a 1997 startup? :-)

So, if what my server is sending the user clients looks like 1997, then the people writing Web browser software have had 2016 - 1997 = 19 years to do the same things to the same HTML and CSS.

So, sounds like my code stands a good shot at looking good on the devices of nearly all the users.

Okay. That's what I was hoping for!

Re: It’s cheaper to build multiple native applications than one responsive web app

#297

Post by graycat »

elliotec wrote: post #286
graycat wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. My site is not live on the Internet yet. On my development computer, it appears that the site works as intended, but I'm still testing, say, alpha testing. Then when I invite in people, call that beta testing. For what is "wrong", I am just guessing that I might have encountered some of the problems mentioned in the OP. Or, maybe even the simple, old HTML, CSS, and JavaScript I'm sending to the users might ha…

As long as the people developing your site have been keeping up with things since the mobile web became a thing (several years), it should be expected that they can develop an app that functions well on just about any device that will run it. This is common, required knowledge of developers. They should be testing the site on as many devices as possible, and developing it with cross-browser capabilities in mind and t…

Except in this case, the developer is me, and this is my first Web site!

Re: It’s cheaper to build multiple native applications than one responsive web app

#298

Post by joeyspn »

st3v3r wrote: post #228
joeyspn wrote: post #107

Comparing "responsive web apps" with native mobile apps? Really? What about cordova/phonegap/ionic? Don't blame the web because you made a poor decision picking your tech stack (or hiring your devs). Nowadays a single webdev can ship OSX, Android and Windows apps with frameworks like Ionic... in weeks. Starters (there are hundreds) help a lot: https://market.ionic.io/starters

Stuff like Cordova and Phonegap almost universally produce crappy apps. Doubly so if the person doesn't think they need to style the app for the individual platform, instead of just shipping the default (usually iOS) styling. Shipping an app with one of those is almost universally saying, "I don't care about user experience, I just want to shovel something out the door as cheaply and quickly as possible."

> Stuff like Cordova and Phonegap almost universally produce crappy apps.

Again, don't blame the tool. Blame the bad usage of the tool. You're just saying: "Let's ban knives, assassins use them to do bad stuff!"

> [...] style the app for the individual platforms [...]

Ionic does this for you automatically. Surprise!

http://ionicframework.com/docs/v2/components/

It's easier to complain about the tools than acknowledge that you might be wrong about how you or your devs use them (because of unfamiliarity).

Truth is many people are shipping stunning apps in no time thanks to web technologies.

Re: It’s cheaper to build multiple native applications than one responsive web app

#299

Post by emdd »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #193
emdd wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we could get notifications for replies & a decent mobile app existed.

Dan Grossman maintains a tool to help you with one: http://www.hnreplies.com I use it.

Nice.

I still wonder why HN seems hesitant to develop the HN platform further (although I'm relatively new to the site, so I don't know the history).

Re: It’s cheaper to build multiple native applications than one responsive web app

#300

Post by emdd »

heywire wrote: post #153
tracker1 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just check a couple times a day... honestly, I'm usually too busy when I'm not checking HN to deal with a reply right at any given moment anyway. It's a forum.

I use hnnotify to tell me about replies and the Hacker News app on iOS by premii is pretty decent for read only access ( I mostly only post when I'm at a computer, I find that my responses make a little more sense that way :) )

Yeah, I found several decent read-only apps, but that hampers the experience for me.
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