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Why I Would Raise Chickens

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Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#231

Post by spoofball »

stinkytaco wrote: post #173
spoofball wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is a hundred year old story. I can't see what is so insightful about that. (small scale is efficient for local needs) What he's not mentioning at all is that the Africans and Indians will get conditioned by meat. Their cultures will grow on meat. I saw it happen to my native country. When meat was just a once in a month occasion, after just 50 years, everything else is considered food for the poor and flesh…

Well, aside from the cultural elitism here (don't "teach" them about this), I think what you are arguing will happen is almost unavoidable in a globalized world. Withholding out of concern for the environment is simply entrenching the existing social order. It's a very "white mans burden" thing to argue. Additionally, the best response is not to withhold meat, which they will no doubt come to anyway, but to offer a s…

> This is not an obvious jump or foregone conclusion.

You said it yourself it's unavoidable. I'm not advocating for withholding, I'm just baffled by the call for sustainability when it isn't.

You can't grow 50kg of continuous meat consumption in your backyard - that's something only industry can do. One has to wait for the chickens to grown and then at one moment in time consume them.

"white mans burden" - is this the main argument for everything? from white guilt to whatever?

I just commented on how it won't lead to long-term sustainability. It is experimentally proven in China and plenty of federal countries of India.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#232

Post by dagw »

sampo wrote: post #203
Houshalter wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's way more profitable to raise chickens than, say, cows. You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing, which is very time consuming and demands a lot of extra work just for feeding said cows, you need to pay someone to take care of the cows when they go out to eat in the summer on the communal field. This is surprising to me. Of course a cow should be more work to raise than a chicke…

> Of course a cow should be more work to raise than a chicken. But it has so many times more meat on it than a chicken, and is more energy efficient per calorie consumed too. Wikipedia says quite the opposite: "Two kilograms of grain must be fed to poultry to produce 1 kg of weight gain, much less than that required for pork or beef." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poultry_farming#Efficiency

Is the ratio of edible-calories-to-body-weight roughly the same chickens and cows?

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#233

Post by puranjay »

Houshalter wrote: post #117
paganel wrote: post #69

My parents live in a village in Eastern Europe with less than $2 a day (I also chip in to financially help them), and they do indeed raise chickens, they've being doing that for the last 15 years or so, since they moved out to the countryside. Bill Gates is correct in his assessment, it's way more profitable to raise chickens than, say, cows. You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing,…

> it's way more profitable to raise chickens than, say, cows. You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing, which is very time consuming and demands a lot of extra work just for feeding said cows, you need to pay someone to take care of the cows when they go out to eat in the summer on the communal field. This is surprising to me. Of course a cow should be more work to raise than a chicke…

Raising cows for meat is not an option in a very large part of the developing world - India - because of religious reasons.

(And it is also illegal in most of the states here in India)

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#234

Post by creshal »

paganel wrote: post #133
Houshalter wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's way more profitable to raise chickens than, say, cows. You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing, which is very time consuming and demands a lot of extra work just for feeding said cows, you need to pay someone to take care of the cows when they go out to eat in the summer on the communal field. This is surprising to me. Of course a cow should be more work to raise than a chicke…

> They might be easier to grow, but in terms of calories they seem much less efficient than, say, potatoes I agree about potatoes, but that only works for relatively cooler climates, i.e. places like Poland or Ireland. It can easily get to 35-37 degrees Celsius in the summer at the place where my parents live (not to mention places like the Indian subcontinent or Africa), at which point storing potatoes becomes a cha…

> A lot of farmers in the European Union who are in the cow-raising business (I'd say most) wouldn't make it without financial help from the EU and from their governments.

And heavy mechanization to automate a lot of the labour.

Which, as you might expect, is even more up-front cost.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#235

Post by creshal »

hugh4 wrote: post #175
paganel wrote: post #69

My parents live in a village in Eastern Europe with less than $2 a day (I also chip in to financially help them), and they do indeed raise chickens, they've being doing that for the last 15 years or so, since they moved out to the countryside. Bill Gates is correct in his assessment, it's way more profitable to raise chickens than, say, cows. You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing,…

>You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing, which is very time consuming and demands a lot of extra work just for feeding said cows, you need to pay someone to take care of the cows when they go out to eat in the summer on the communal field Depends where you are, of course. Some places you just leave your cows out eating grass for years until it's time to slaughter them, then you hire…

That only works in places like the US or Australia, where land is cheap and safe. In Europe you wouldn't find enough land for that, and in many other places you couldn't keep cows unsupervised for a day.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#236

Post by sooheon »

nunb wrote: post #211
paganel wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They might be easier to grow, but in terms of calories they seem much less efficient than, say, potatoes I agree about potatoes, but that only works for relatively cooler climates, i.e. places like Poland or Ireland. It can easily get to 35-37 degrees Celsius in the summer at the place where my parents live (not to mention places like the Indian subcontinent or Africa), at which point storing potatoes becomes a cha…

Goat are great ... funnily enough was just at a small sheep/goat farm yesterday. The goat's milk is salty (great for keto) and my lactose-intolerant gut can stand a glass or two. Plus the cheese is way tastier, milk has more fat etc. http://www.self-reliance.com/2015/12/why-not-add-a-dairy-goa...

Why is salty milk better for keto?

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#237

Post by sangnoir »

205guy wrote: post #202
Maultasche wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having raised chickens when I was a kid, I can tell you that chickens will survive on almost anything organic. They're like little organic waste disposal units. There is a reason that no plants grow where chickens are kept in pens: they eat anything that grows. They'll eat any bugs they can find. I've also seen them eat other chickens that had died of some natural cause. Chickens usually get fed grain because grain i…

I've always thought that chickens, the free ranging kind, make insect protein palatable to humans.

> I've always thought that chickens, the free ranging kind, make insect protein palatable to humans.

In many parts of the world, certain insect protein is already palatable. To mention a few palatable insects I know of: the caterpillar stage of a specific moth species (Gonimbrasia belina)[1], locusts, termites[2] and - believe it or not - stinkbugs![3]

1. Also known as mopane worms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonimbrasia_belina

2. capturing soldier termites is a fun, albeit occasionally painful experience for kids. Those giant mandibles can cut skin, and once closed, they never open

3. http://www.thestandard.co.zw/2013/09/08/bikita-villagers-sel...

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#238

Post by jakeogh »

gadders wrote: post #230
jakeogh wrote: post #103

I started raising chickens 2 years ago. A few things I have learned: If you have a yard that they can run free in, they don't need a coop. Chickens will happily roost in the trees. I live in southern Arizona, so the winters are mild, but I know of people that do the same thing in much colder climates. Chickens are tough. An added benefit is they are actually safer, if they are locked in a coop, and a predator gets in…

Our cat is a pretty good hunter - normally one dead mouse/baby rabbit/vole/bird per day and he leaves the chickens alone. He did pounce on one once by jumping on it off the bonnet of my wife's car, but soon got off it. I think it was more for fun than a serious attempt.

Ha. Yep, I had a similar experience. Tossed a chick (they love getting air and get all excited when they land) at my most friendly cat once without thinking and he instinctively reached out and caught it, but immediately let go and gave me the "oops sorry" look. I suspect the domestic cat/chicken/human triangle goes way back.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#239

Post by creshal »

cplease wrote: post #219
mackal wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cultures where it is "considered woman's animal" the chickens provided by Heifer will most likely be raised by them. These woman will help bring in money for their families. That is what is empowering.

I get what the words say. What I am remarking on is that engaging in domestic, socially-acceptable and conventionally female work around the household for the economic benefit of ones family (as opposed to oneself) is a highly strained interpretation of "empowering." Yes, if the alternative is wallowing in penury and being completely economically dependent, it is certainly better. But empowering?

Why is it not empowering to give women more economic independence, in way that's sustainable in their societies?

Suffragettes in Europe had to fight for more economic rights for fifty years after getting the right to vote, and it was messy, protracted battle. (Until the 1970s, German husbands could dictate whether their wife were allowed to work or not, and kept control over their earnings for even longer.)

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#240

Post by csomar »

Houshalter wrote: post #117
paganel wrote: post #69

My parents live in a village in Eastern Europe with less than $2 a day (I also chip in to financially help them), and they do indeed raise chickens, they've being doing that for the last 15 years or so, since they moved out to the countryside. Bill Gates is correct in his assessment, it's way more profitable to raise chickens than, say, cows. You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing,…

> it's way more profitable to raise chickens than, say, cows. You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing, which is very time consuming and demands a lot of extra work just for feeding said cows, you need to pay someone to take care of the cows when they go out to eat in the summer on the communal field. This is surprising to me. Of course a cow should be more work to raise than a chicke…

I think it relates to risk, growth and capital.

You only need $10-20 to get started with chickens, and from there you can grow quickly to $500-1000 in a matter of few months.

To get started with a cow, you'll need a huge capital (thousands) and take a big risk (cow dies).

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