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Why I Would Raise Chickens

gatesnotes.com

171–180 of 272 posts

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#171

The way chickens are raised today, you'd be insane to raise chickens. Chickens of the old, roamed the grass, picking little shits that no one could find or eat, growing slowly but steadily, surviving and mating. Today, they gorge on soybean-B12 juice that was raised on ex-rainforest area. It's highly unsustainable and ridiculously bad investment. Bill Gates has previously written about meat and its sustainability and…

I'm not sure you followed the article. He's arguing for small scale, not large scale investment. Raising chickens primarily for their eggs, and secondarily for their meat. Indeed, he appears to be advocating "chickens of old" as you call them, rather than industrial operations to increase self-sufficiency. Because they continually produce food, are largely self-sufficient, living off calories otherwise rejected and b…

But that is a hundred year old story. I can't see what is so insightful about that. (small scale is efficient for local needs)

What he's not mentioning at all is that the Africans and Indians will get conditioned by meat. Their cultures will grow on meat.

I saw it happen to my native country. When meat was just a once in a month occasion, after just 50 years, everything else is considered food for the poor and flesh is in every meal.

Why would we want to repeat the same mistake? Condition new 2+ billion people on meat, increase their desire for luxury and let the capitalism meet the demand?

It's absolutely impossible that small scale chicken farms meet the demand of 2 billion people and we all know that Brazil will start cutting more of the Amazon (it's already doing that) to raise more soybean to get that newly discovered stream of money. One can do the calculation for cattle, and you'll see that grass-fed cattle barely meets 10% of the current demand.

I'm quite baffled by the lack of mention of the long-term consequences in the article.

Not only will they get richer, but shifting their culture from mainly plant-based to meat-based will have a huge impact on the world.

Just look at China and what happened in the last 60 years. From a country that had only 4kg of meat per person per year, they now have 50kg - just recently their government organization urged their people to eat less meat. (Chinese ocean floor is practically dead)

Not to mention this: http://globalfarmernetwork.org/2016/06/open-letter-to-the-eu...

Why wouldn't Europe give GMO to Africa?

Why wouldn't everyone lobby for more plants in Africa?

Because we want to sell that unsustainable dairy, eggs and meat.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They might be easier to grow, but in terms of calories they seem much less efficient than, say, potatoes I agree about potatoes, but that only works for relatively cooler climates, i.e. places like Poland or Ireland. It can easily get to 35-37 degrees Celsius in the summer at the place where my parents live (not to mention places like the Indian subcontinent or Africa), at which point storing potatoes becomes a cha…

> I agree about potatoes, but that only works for relatively cooler climates, i.e. places like Poland or Ireland. It can easily get to 35-37 degrees Celsius in the summer at the place where my parents live (not to mention places like the Indian subcontinent or Africa), at which point storing potatoes becomes a challenge. Is it? Here in South Italy we successfully grow potatoes and we have such hot summers.

Judging from the parent comment, I don't think growing potatoes is the problem, but storing them.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you followed the article. He's arguing for small scale, not large scale investment. Raising chickens primarily for their eggs, and secondarily for their meat. Indeed, he appears to be advocating "chickens of old" as you call them, rather than industrial operations to increase self-sufficiency. Because they continually produce food, are largely self-sufficient, living off calories otherwise rejected and b…

But that is a hundred year old story. I can't see what is so insightful about that. (small scale is efficient for local needs) What he's not mentioning at all is that the Africans and Indians will get conditioned by meat. Their cultures will grow on meat. I saw it happen to my native country. When meat was just a once in a month occasion, after just 50 years, everything else is considered food for the poor and flesh…

Well, aside from the cultural elitism here (don't "teach" them about this), I think what you are arguing will happen is almost unavoidable in a globalized world. Withholding out of concern for the environment is simply entrenching the existing social order. It's a very "white mans burden" thing to argue.

Additionally, the best response is not to withhold meat, which they will no doubt come to anyway, but to offer a sustainable and realistic alternative. You can't stop the flow of global food, but you can make it cheaper and more sustainable. And cheaper will generally win.

Finally, you simply made a huge jump from "let's get them a chicken to live on" to "it's a terrible investment because commercial meat production is bad". This is not an obvious jump or foregone conclusion.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#174
Please note Bill's address to the community about his charitable donations contingent upon our participation. I like how he is engaging the community to spread a good idea.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#175
post #69

My parents live in a village in Eastern Europe with less than $2 a day (I also chip in to financially help them), and they do indeed raise chickens, they've being doing that for the last 15 years or so, since they moved out to the countryside. Bill Gates is correct in his assessment, it's way more profitable to raise chickens than, say, cows. You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing,…

>You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing, which is very time consuming and demands a lot of extra work just for feeding said cows, you need to pay someone to take care of the cows when they go out to eat in the summer on the communal field

Depends where you are, of course. Some places you just leave your cows out eating grass for years until it's time to slaughter them, then you hire some dudes with helicopters to round 'em all up.

And a barn? For 150,000 cows?

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is a hundred year old story. I can't see what is so insightful about that. (small scale is efficient for local needs) What he's not mentioning at all is that the Africans and Indians will get conditioned by meat. Their cultures will grow on meat. I saw it happen to my native country. When meat was just a once in a month occasion, after just 50 years, everything else is considered food for the poor and flesh…

Well, aside from the cultural elitism here (don't "teach" them about this), I think what you are arguing will happen is almost unavoidable in a globalized world. Withholding out of concern for the environment is simply entrenching the existing social order. It's a very "white mans burden" thing to argue. Additionally, the best response is not to withhold meat, which they will no doubt come to anyway, but to offer a s…

What's wrong with entrenching the existing social order?

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heifer generally does not perform a 1-to-1 action with your donations. That is, donating a flock of chickens through Heifer is actually making a monetary donation to the entire organization. It is unlikely that your donation will be directly linked to a specific flock donation to a particular family (if it results in any animal donation at all). According to the latest filing I have seen, less than half of a donation…

Charity Navigator: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary... ~75% of total expenses go to programs and services.

Form 990, FY 2015; Part IX, lines 1 & 3:

http://9dc3f407a257cfd3f7ea-d14ef12e680aa00597bdffb57368cf92...

~40% of programs and services go to salaries, benefits, travel, hotels, advertising, etc. The other ~60% is not broken out, but I believe goes to Heifer's Legally Separate Entities.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#179
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, aside from the cultural elitism here (don't "teach" them about this), I think what you are arguing will happen is almost unavoidable in a globalized world. Withholding out of concern for the environment is simply entrenching the existing social order. It's a very "white mans burden" thing to argue. Additionally, the best response is not to withhold meat, which they will no doubt come to anyway, but to offer a s…

What's wrong with entrenching the existing social order?

If you're the wealthy, meat eating country, with a higher standard of living, longer lifespan and lower infant mortality, nothing, I guess.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#180
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt that Beef is a more efficient if source of meat than Chicken. I think Chicken meat is a lot more efficient. A little quick googling and I found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio

The conversion ratio would hold if they ate the same things. Cows can survive on grass, which is often plentiful. Chickens more so on grains, which are harder to come by.

Plentiful if you have the land. The relative availability and cost of land is not guaranteed.
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