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Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

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Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#271

Post by hackaflocka »

linkregister wrote: post #24

From the article: State Sen. Kyle Loveless, R-Oklahoma City, said that removes due process and the belief that a suspect is presumed innocent until proven guilty. He said we've already seen cases in Oklahoma where police are abusing the system. "We've seen single mom's stuff be taken, a cancer survivor his drugs taken, we saw a Christian band being taken. We've seen innocent people's stuff being taken. We've seen whe…

Interesting choice of examples: Single moms, Christian band. (By the way, I know lots of Christian bands that are pro medical-marijuana).

(Edited to change "marijuana" to "medical-marijuana".)

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#272

Post by waterphone »

Digit-Al wrote: post #255

As an Englishman, I have a couple of questions for you Americans on here. 1) Does anyone know who came up with these "civil asset forfeitures"? (Personally, they seem most un-civil to me.) 2) Can any of you defend America as "the land of the free" when more of the population are in prison than in almost any other country in the word and the police not only have the power to strip you of your property and assets witho…

In practice, America isn't universally the land of the free and never has been. However, it has founding principles that many people believe in which do advocate widespread freedoms. These principles have not been and still are not applied properly.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#273

Post by solotronics »

One more reason to keep a reserve of Bitcoins. With a hardware wallet like a Trezor your bitcoins are secured on a physical device with a PIN and password. The police in the US can do civil asset forfeiture on gold, cash, and now bank accounts so obviously a more secure asset is needed. Bitcoin is that secure asset that can be moved in a few minutes in any amount to anywhere.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#274

Post by dragonwriter »

hackaflocka wrote: post #271
linkregister wrote: post #24

From the article: State Sen. Kyle Loveless, R-Oklahoma City, said that removes due process and the belief that a suspect is presumed innocent until proven guilty. He said we've already seen cases in Oklahoma where police are abusing the system. "We've seen single mom's stuff be taken, a cancer survivor his drugs taken, we saw a Christian band being taken. We've seen innocent people's stuff being taken. We've seen whe…

Interesting choice of examples: Single moms, Christian band. (By the way, I know lots of Christian bands that are pro medical-marijuana). (Edited to change "marijuana" to "medical-marijuana".)

Its not a particularly surprising choice of examples for a Republican politician upset about the practice that wants to highlight targeted groups to whom his constituency is likely to be sympathetic.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#275

Post by harryh »

konradb wrote: post #36
wccrawford wrote: post #16

This reads like The Onion. I can't believe they're serious. >"If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. ... Legit reason? How am I supposed to prove where every cent came from? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

> If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money Exactly, why is it not incumbent upon them to prove that you have gained that money through illegitimate means?

If the police catch a person running away from a recently robbed bank holding a bag of money do you think they should have to convict the person before taking back the money?

If there is reason to believe that someone is in possession of property that doesn't belong to them it seems perfectly reasonable for the police to confiscate said property.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#276

Post by emn13 »

mcbits wrote: post #236
khedoros wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you do end up with amusing case names like "United States v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U... ). The currency is defined as the defendant in the case.

I feel like I'm living in the Matrix when I see things like this. There are people out there - lawyers and judges, who must be fairly smart to finish law school - who think "United States v. $124,700" makes perfect sense.

Hey, if a corporation is a person...

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#277

Post by jMyles »

fapjacks wrote: post #247

This is the crux here. The "rule of law" is equivalent to "rule of men in black with automatic weapons". If you call the police, you are just outsourcing your violence to the men in black uniforms with automatic weapons. Because at the end of the day, they will use force. The "rule of law" is not "let's have a reasonable conversation about the issues".

"Rule of law" is supposed to mean that, absent adherence to its letter, self-defense with weapons of your own is not only proper but essential in order for liberty to persevere.

Although your anarchic mindset is appealing to me, I'm less ready to give up on the phrase and concept of "rule of law," which I think still has a place in a free information age.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#278

Post by tajen »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #74

Symptom of a bigger problem: nobody in the criminal justice system is punished for making the wrong move. There is no law enforcement downside to civil asset forfeiture. Officer-involved shootings are discouraged from prosecution or otherwise involve highly-paid "expert" witnesses saying the officer had no other choice - at taxpayer expense. Prosecutors are valued by the number of wins, not by how many innocent peopl…

Bonus question: In countries that are still exempt from highway police robbery such as in Europe, what can we do to avoid gliding towards it? Isn't HPR a natural evolution of the increased number of police agents after massive terrorist attacks, like the two we've just had in France?

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#279

Post by jjawssd »

kstrauser wrote: post #228

Do you want to be called pigs? Because this is how you get called pigs. I'm a very law-and-order guy, but I have zero sympathy for police departments who pull shenanigans like this and then bitch and moan that their communities don't respect them. This gives limitless ammo to critics who want to paint police as noncaring, profit-driven thugs, probably endangering officers' lives in the process. What an utterly despic…

They don't care what they are called -- they just sit back and count the dough

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#280

Post by jjawssd »

Negative1 wrote: post #149

7.7%!? WOW! They really hustled those cops. I always hear how difficult it is to work with schools, law enforcement, basically most gov agencies. Surprising to see how well that company played the cops in this instance.

The cops don't get played at all. They still make more than they would otherwise with this approach -- which used to be zero.
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