Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards • Hacker News Board

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#251

Post by imauld » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 7:19 PM UTC

ikeboy wrote: post #11

>The largest part that we have found ... the biggest benefit has been the identity theft, Oh, so if I have a card in someone else's name, you'll charge it, thus causing someone who doesn't even know about it to lose? Any lawyers here want to weigh in on whether this would be identity theft/credit card fraud/etc on the part of the police and hence illegal? Isn't scanning/charging a card without authorization illegal?

I took this to mean that the police are stealing peoples identities and it's been very beneficial for them.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#252

Post by fapjacks » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #95

redditplebs wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to lookup ERAD Inc. online. Fun times ahead!

I'm already spinning up a comprehensive FOIA request with MuckRock.com. Feel free to reply to my comment if anyone would like to collaborate.

Yes, please. Thanks.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#253

Post by harryh » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

masmullin wrote: post #205

If citizens united proved that money is speech, does civil forfeiture not impede on the first amendment?

Citizens United did not prove that simple ownership of money is speech. So no, it does not.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#254

Post by quickben » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

As a canadian reading this, my instinctive reactions were: 1. Is this a parody of some kind?

After it turned out it's legit news:

2. So why they simply aren't maxing out people credit cards too? I mean, by the same flawed logic, it would stop crime if people are more in debt. You can of course prove you aren't going to use your credit card for further crimes and have the money returned.

Then again, I should stop giving people ideas.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#255

Post by Digit-Al » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 7:25 PM UTC

As an Englishman, I have a couple of questions for you Americans on here.

1) Does anyone know who came up with these "civil asset forfeitures"? (Personally, they seem most un-civil to me.)

2) Can any of you defend America as "the land of the free" when more of the population are in prison than in almost any other country in the word and the police not only have the power to strip you of your property and assets without even needing a solid reason, but can shoot you dead and barely get a slap on the wrist?

Not having a go at America or Americans, but it seems to me that those who truly believe it to be a land of the free are deluding themselves.

[edit: damn keyboard]

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#256

Post by oh_sigh » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 7:27 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #16

This reads like The Onion. I can't believe they're serious. >"If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. ... Legit reason? How am I supposed to prove where every cent came from? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

Pay stubs? Employer testimony?

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#257

Post by waterphone » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 7:27 PM UTC

xviia wrote: post #80

jmuguy wrote: post #20

I think part of this is just shoddy reporting from a local news source, I believe this is tech they're talking about. https://www.erad-group.com/fci While the implications here are certainly pretty creepy, this seems more like something to use in investigations of money laundering, etc.

Hello sir, we're performing an investigation. We accept cash, check, and credit card. Just hand us your wallet, sign here, and then realize you can't afford to hire a lawyer because we took all your money .

This happens, or something very similar. There have been multiple cases where someone faces charges and the government freezes all their bank accounts, preventing them from being able to hire a good attorney to defend themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/17/us/justices-weigh-freezing...

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#258

Post by nhf » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 7:28 PM UTC

vitd wrote: post #193

cglace wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is wrong. ERAD card scanners were first developed around 2012 for the science and technology arm of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to combat the use of prepaid debit cards by drug cartels to transport drug money, according to a Homeland Security media release. Since then, some law enforcement agencies around the country have adopted the technology. According to ERAD Group’s patent for the device…

> the system disguises the balance request as a typical vendor request to prevent alerting suspects that law enforcement is checking the card Wouldn't that go against the credit card (or pre-paid card) merchant agreement? And wouldn't ERAD have to have signed such an agreement in order to access the credit card network?

From that contract that was linked elsewhere, the equipment being provided includes:

> One (1) VX680 GPRS Terminal w/battery, thermal printer

The VX680 is a mobile credit card terminal (http://www.verifone.com/media/413350/VX680_2_lg.jpg) made by Verifone, much like the type that restaurants use most places besides the USA. If I had to speculate, maybe they try putting varying charges/holds on the card and see when it gets rejected in order to divine the balance?

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#259

Post by jitix » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 7:28 PM UTC

This is physically repulsive and literal theft by the state. Do other developed countries (EU, Canada, etc.) have similar laws?

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#260

Post by waterphone » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 7:29 PM UTC

maxaf wrote: post #42

VLM wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its mostly for use against prepaid gift cards and the like. Also those cheesy pre-paid credit cards. Supposedly its already in use at borders. The news is that now if you get pulled over in OK the cops will now keep any gift cards they find. Ever wonder why there's such a push to get RFID everywhere? If they RF scan your car and find a card in the trunk now you're at minimum guilty of obstruction.

> If they RF scan your car and find a card in the trunk now you're at minimum guilty of obstruction. Errrrrr not really! 4th Amendment gives you the right to refuse a search of your person or vehicle. Even if the cops do find something illegal during a search you've clearly but politely refused, your refusal will give your defense attorney grounds to ask the court to throw out any evidence found in the trunk.

Which is why they aren't charging people with crimes when stealing property many of the times. No criminal charges, no public defender, no recourse for people with little to no money (and what little they had just got seized) to go to court to reclaim their stolen property.