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Why I Would Raise Chickens

gatesnotes.com

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Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#81

Post by fr0sty »

sjs7007 wrote: post #70
cschep wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost certainly about being a nuisance to your neighbors. Roosters crow super obnoxiously. Like.. wow. If you've ever tried to sleep with one nearby you know what I'm talking about. Just handle that edge case (e.g. don't keep a rooster around) and NO ONE will care if you have chickens that don't bother anyone :) Especially if you're into sharing the eggs!

So what do you do when roosters are born...kill them?

Commercial chicken hatching operations separate chickens by sex and destroy the males, yes. Backyard operations rarely hatch their own chicks but rather buy them from suppliers (who deliver via USPS, surprisingly enough).

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#82

Post by lukeschlather »

bko wrote: post #47
bryanlarsen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're giving away vaccinated chicks. I suspect that the vaccines are the main problem they're addressing. It's certainly possible that it's easier and cheaper to give away vaccinated chicks than it is to give away vaccinations.

The author mentioned the low cost of vaccines (the one that prevents the deadly Newcastle disease costs less than 20 cents). I suspect the reason that this is not already being done by the locals is that there are some other costs or factors that are specific to the local market that outsiders have no way of assessing.

It sounds like in order to get money you need to be raising and selling on the order of 100-300 chickens per year. So we're talking $20-40 year. To put that in perspective for a contract software developer making $100k+/year, that's like spending $20k/year on software licenses.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#83

Post by TrainedMonkey »

nostromo wrote: post #76
bko wrote: post #3

> If you read this article, watch the video above, and answer one question below, I will donate—on your behalf via Heifer—a flock of chickens to a family in poverty. Giving a flock of chickens to desperately poor families sounds like a great idea that will pay dividends for many years. However, I can't help but be reminded of the many charitable programs that sound great but end up having very unusual unintended cons…

Unintended consequences are one thing to consider, another is opportunity cost. Gates should have two control groups: A) Gets a bunch of chickens B) Gets the money the chickens would cost (including all project overhead) C) Gets nothing My guess is that B would in-fact have the best outcomes for the simple reason that Africans probably know what they need to improve their lives better than do foreign central-planners…

Option B is liable to cause inflation if not executed extremely carefully.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#84

Post by gearhart »

Anybody else surprised by how much a chicken costs in Africa?

$5 is £3.45[1] and I can buy a (dead, plucked, gutted, packaged, delivered to my door) chicken in the UK for £2.95[2].

I realise the local supply's much lower because my Sainsbury's chicken is grown in a cage in a factory somewhere, but nonetheless, I didn't expect that.

[1] I presume USD is the currency in the video, since 5 of the local currency is £0.006

[2] http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/chicken/sainsb...

edit: looks like I left the page open for longer than I thought - this discussion happened elsewhere hours ago. Apologies.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#85

Post by bryanlarsen »

pitt1980 wrote: post #45
bryanlarsen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression that's for a fully grown chicken sold for meat. I have no idea how big those chickens are. In North America live chickens sell for between 30 and 50 cents a pound. The chickens in the video look like small roasters, definitely under 10 pounds.

how am I able to buy a rotisserie chicken from the grocery store for $5? seems like I've getting pretty much everything that's economically viable from the chicken, plus a fair amount of labor put into the chicken

A rotisserie chicken is usually ~2 pounds.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#86

Post by kevinnk »

nostromo wrote: post #75
crpatino wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order of severity: 1. Family ends up homeless because there is no legal framework to raise small anymals in urban environments, and the flock is framed as "unruly pets" by abusive landlord/neighbours. Family ends up worse than how they started without help. 2. Family receives the flock, but not any training/resources to tend them properly. Chickens die of illness, malnourishment, or get killed by urban predators (…

4. "Free chickens from Gates" puts local chicken breeders out of business. Fast forward a few years and their are fewer chickens, not more, in targeted areas.

What if Gates bought the chickens he gives away from local breeders?

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#87

Post by tomjen3 »

sjs7007 wrote: post #70
cschep wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost certainly about being a nuisance to your neighbors. Roosters crow super obnoxiously. Like.. wow. If you've ever tried to sleep with one nearby you know what I'm talking about. Just handle that edge case (e.g. don't keep a rooster around) and NO ONE will care if you have chickens that don't bother anyone :) Especially if you're into sharing the eggs!

So what do you do when roosters are born...kill them?

You only need one rooster to ten-fourteen chickens anyway, but they are 50% of the chicks, you do the math.

Anyway most don't hatch their own chickens, because without a machine you will have trouble finding a hen that can do it - but I assume this is a western thing, as it is a fairly recent development (ie 100 years ago it would have been no trouble).

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#88

Post by wrsh07 »

grishas wrote: post #59

Pretty much all research has shown that the best way to improve poverty is to give people money, and not some sort of good that you've decided is better (goats, chickens, cows, whatever). Unfortunately, giving away money just doesn't sell. :(

I'm not sure that it's as cut and dried as you describe.

If I understand correctly, GiveDirectly is uncertain about the effectiveness of their programs outside of their current "pilot" countries.

[there are lots of factors: the poor in Kenya & Uganda are very poor - and the marginal dollar to them is very effective, replacing thatched roofs, etc; Kenya has good support for transferring money]

Besides, it's a good thing to experiment to see how effective different methods are. It seems naive to settle on one method and decide all other methods are "stupid," especially when contributing to one doesn't necessarily detract from the other [the Gates foundation has enough money to saturate any one charity].

It's always so surprising to me to see people unhappy about the good work others are doing.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#89

Post by stouset »

shostack wrote: post #35
crpatino wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order of severity: 1. Family ends up homeless because there is no legal framework to raise small anymals in urban environments, and the flock is framed as "unruly pets" by abusive landlord/neighbours. Family ends up worse than how they started without help. 2. Family receives the flock, but not any training/resources to tend them properly. Chickens die of illness, malnourishment, or get killed by urban predators (…

You forgot risk of salmonella and other diseases from not properly handling chicken products (meat, eggs, cleaning up after handling them, etc.), and subsequent lack of medical help because of lack of money and/or lack of insurance. That said, you have to break some eggs to make an omelette (ok, I guess the pun was intended). These are things you can help educate about in the process and shouldn't stop something like…

As I understand it, salmonella and other food-borne illnesses are quite rare in non-factory-farmed chickens. The biggest contributor in the US is water chilling (as opposed to air chilling), which causes one infected carcass to infect the rest.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#90

Post by Jtsummers »

nostromo wrote: post #75
crpatino wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order of severity: 1. Family ends up homeless because there is no legal framework to raise small anymals in urban environments, and the flock is framed as "unruly pets" by abusive landlord/neighbours. Family ends up worse than how they started without help. 2. Family receives the flock, but not any training/resources to tend them properly. Chickens die of illness, malnourishment, or get killed by urban predators (…

4. "Free chickens from Gates" puts local chicken breeders out of business. Fast forward a few years and their are fewer chickens, not more, in targeted areas.

He's buying them from somewhere, not creating them out of thin air.
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