Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards • Hacker News Board

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#111

Post by jandrese » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:41 PM UTC

Roboprog wrote: post #85

SixSigma wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess married mothers, non-sick people and secular bands would all be fair game. Shouldn't this just be "Citizens robbed by police". In India at least they have the decency to say "Do you have a gift for me?" so you know what's happening. My dad would pretend to be hard of hearing and deliberately misunderstand ad nauseum until waved on his way, this would happen about once a month while going about his lawful busi…

I'm pretty sure the speaker was trying to point out a few examples which he thought the audience would sympathize were unlikely to be threats or otherwise engaged in criminal activity. Of course all of these forfeitures stink of illegality, regardless of the victim. Forth Amendment? Never heard of it, apparently.

I'm sure they're going to use that bullshit legal reasoning that because the money committed the crime, the money itself can be held responsible and seized, and money doesn't have 4th amendment protections because it's not a person.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#112

Post by swiftDaemon » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:41 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #95

redditplebs wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to lookup ERAD Inc. online. Fun times ahead!

I'm already spinning up a comprehensive FOIA request with MuckRock.com. Feel free to reply to my comment if anyone would like to collaborate.

I'd love to see what progress you make with this

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#113

Post by jandrese » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:44 PM UTC

nfriedly wrote: post #99

> News 9 obtained a copy of the contract with the state. It shows the state is paying ERAD Group Inc. [...] 7.7 percent of all the cash the highway patrol seizes. I think that might even be worse then the police being able to sieze all of you money.

It is incredibly mercenary isn't it? Does the device just send the request off to a call center where the ERAD folks do the actual bank account drains? How are they able to justify such a huge commission? Who in the government negotiated this? Did they get a nice cushy job in the ERAD group after they retired from government work?

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#114

Post by gherkin0 » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:45 PM UTC

This is total, corrupt bullshit. How the fuck is a traffic cop supposed to ascertain the origin of the money in your accounts, let alone if it was from the "the commission of a crime?"

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#115

Post by swiftDaemon » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:45 PM UTC

redditplebs wrote: post #93

DickingAround wrote: post #2

And the scanner maker gets a 7% cut. What could go wrong: "the state is paying ERAD Group Inc., $5,000 for the software and scanners, then 7.7 percent of all the cash the highway patrol seizes"

Time to lookup ERAD Inc. online. Fun times ahead!

The COO is on linkdin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-beckerman-37819514

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#116

Post by adaml_623 » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

eonw wrote: post #104

From Article: "If you can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from nor how i got it. this is assumed guilt and utterly unamerican IMO. Where is the burden of proof that must be reached before taking my assets and forcing me to prov…

Why would you say it's 'unamerican'? Your police force does similar things in almost every state don't they?

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#117

Post by jandrese » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

maxaf wrote: post #14

This can't possibly be legal or even technically feasible. The victim can call her bank and report a fraudulent transaction, which pits the bank against a warrantless seizure that's impossible to defend in court. Surely banks can catch on and frontload an "identity protection" mechanism that'll simply block transactions from anything matching "ERAD" or however they identify themselves to the ACH. It's doubtful that l…

If it's a wire transfer then there's not much your bank can do. The money is gone by the time you have them on the phone just as much as if you had sent it to a Nigerian Prince.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#118

Post by fudged71 » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:49 PM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #103

viggity wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The despicable logic they use is that they're not charging the person with a crime (because people have due process rights), they're charging an inanimate object, the money, the car, etc. Property doesn't have due process rights, apparently. Seriously. If you look at the court cases for asset forfeitures, it is titled "The State of Oklahoma vs $1,534.32 in cash" or "Iowa vs 2014 Mercedes".

Well, the real funny asset-forfeiture case names are United States v. Article Consisting of 50,000 Cardboard Boxes More or Less, Each Containing One Pair of Clacker Balls and United States v. Approximately 64,695 Pounds of Shark Fins . But the likes of United States v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency is obviously more dangerous than either of those: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U... And the li…

These sound like McSweeneys article titles

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#119

Post by nxzero » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:50 PM UTC

gherkin0 wrote: post #108

nxzero wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor comparison and illogical too. "Bad cops" have committed acts which are illegal; where were illegal acts committed in the story? Even if organizationally there wasn't a tendency to protect the organization, this would not end the issue.

The acts may not be "illegal" but they are unjust and immoral.

You mean like punishment without due process? (aka a blacklist)

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#120

Post by visarga » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:50 PM UTC

>"If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you."

The so called presumption of guilt. I am sure everyone has the proofs and doesn't need the money while they are held by the police.