Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist • Hacker News Board

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#221

Post by vinceguidry » Tue, Jun 07, 2016, 2:24 AM UTC

dennisgorelik wrote: post #212

vinceguidry wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The guy has devoted his life to harassing people through litigation. Exactly. He's probably not that well-versed in physical security. Maybe he's got a gun he shoots once in awhile, that's probably going to be the extent of his precautions. He's not going to be some unassailable hermit with aggressively unreasonable defenses. Guys like that are too busy doing that to earn law degrees. So I can learn how to effectiv…

The problem with this intimidation approach is that if it works, then it can be applied not only abusive litigants, but against anyone who who sues. Society in general and legal system in particular would not want that to happen. So if you execute that intimidation strategy then you are likely to become a prosecution target of legal system. --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intimidation Threat, Criminal threatening (…

> So if you execute that intimidation strategy then you are likely to become a prosecution target of legal system.

Possible? Sure. Likely? Hardly. The same legal system that failed to deliver justice to this asshole's victims, is the same legal system that will fail him when he pokes the wrong bear. He's not the only guy out there with the skills to skirt the law.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#222

Post by giarc » Tue, Jun 07, 2016, 2:35 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #59

giarc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the onus be on Zavodnik to prove he sent the documents by registered mail?

That is if he wanted those delivered. I think the idea was he didn't because he wanted to get the default judgement.

Oh of course, however you think logically you would need to prove delivery of documents. The default judgement is when the defendant hasn't responded in 30 days. Therefore you would assume you would have to prove the defendant had something to respond to.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#223

Post by quesera » Tue, Jun 07, 2016, 5:52 AM UTC

BuckRogers wrote: post #109

vinceguidry wrote: post #17

Had this been me, at some point I'd have driven to the bar, and asked the biggest guys I could find if they'd take $500 to show up at the guy's house and scare the living crap out of him. Escalate accordingly. There aren't that many situations left in this country that call for intimidation / violence, but malicious litigation is one of them.

I've actually done similar things to that, many times. I come from "salt of the Earth" folks like you describe. I'm a programmer and all around nice guy, I hold doors for folks. I'll walk out of my way to go open the door for you if your hands are full everytime. And just last night a drunk driver ran into a parked car outside, it wasn't one of mine but I went out and took photos of everything for whoevers car it was…

What's up with the xenophobia? Does it help?

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#224

Post by jjnoakes » Tue, Jun 07, 2016, 12:53 PM UTC

wl wrote: post #198

jjnoakes wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because buying something online might mean the item has to be shipped? Since buyer and seller may not be able to meet up for some reason? Mailing cash seems like a terrible idea. Do you think we should find a cash escrow service too?

Craigslist is for in person deals. Craigslist itself warns against shipping items[1]. [1] http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

So this discussion doesn't apply to other online sites which do ship items?

What stops an ebay buyer from the same malicious litigation?

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#225

Post by wagglycocks » Tue, Jun 07, 2016, 1:32 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #157

wagglycocks wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admire your cautiousness. You certainly are a strong male and will surely be rewarded with offspring for being such a gallant mate.

We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the HN guidelines. If you don't want it to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com. We're happy to unban people when there's reason to believe that they'll only post civil and substantive comments in the future.

?

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#226

Post by talmand » Tue, Jun 07, 2016, 2:10 PM UTC

jeffmould wrote: post #196

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If I show up in court with a bill that shows you owe me a million dollars, I attest that we agreed to it, and you don't challenge that fact? That's the truth as far as the court is concerned. // Absolutely not. A court shouldn't sit on "anything said that isn't challenged is 100% true", it should look in a tort case on the balance of probabilities. IMO courts should attempt to discover what is true and rule on that,…

"IMO courts should attempt to discover what is true and rule on that" But how do the courts do that when only one party is presenting the evidence? The only way that would work is if you filed a case, a neutral investigator from the court investigated your claim, and the judge ruled on what the investigator found. Otherwise, the court has to base its decision on the evidence provided. If only half the evidence is pro…

I believe somewhere in there the judges have the ability to ask questions and determine things on their own despite what either party wants or desires. It's the whole point in having a judge. If everything could be decided solely on evidence presented without question then people are not required for most cases, just an elaborate evidence decision tree is needed.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#227

Post by fiatmoney » Tue, Jun 07, 2016, 2:55 PM UTC

jjnoakes wrote: post #224

wl wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Craigslist is for in person deals. Craigslist itself warns against shipping items[1]. [1] http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

So this discussion doesn't apply to other online sites which do ship items? What stops an ebay buyer from the same malicious litigation?

Usually markets like ebay have reputation systems for both sides, and it is easier to enforce disclaimers and arbitration agreements.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#228

Post by dthrowit » Tue, Jun 07, 2016, 6:20 PM UTC

wl wrote: post #195

dthrowit wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and here in california, my anecdote entails me learning via first class mail that there's about to be a judgement entered against me because I failed to respond to papers I never received, because the plaintiff had apparently served them to an old address of mine (probably intentionally by this shady lawyer filing the small claims suit against me).

Parties cannot be represented by attorneys in small claims court in California[1]. Unless the person suing you was the "shady lawyer" you're talking about, your anecdote doesn't make any sense. [1] California Code of Civil Procedure §116.530 http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=ccp&gr...

Yes, the person suing me in small claims court was the shady lawyer himself.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#229

Post by jjnoakes » Tue, Jun 07, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

fiatmoney wrote: post #227

jjnoakes wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this discussion doesn't apply to other online sites which do ship items? What stops an ebay buyer from the same malicious litigation?

Usually markets like ebay have reputation systems for both sides, and it is easier to enforce disclaimers and arbitration agreements.

None of that stops a willful malicious individual like the topic of this post.

And that's just ebay. The comments in this thread were about generic online transactions between strangers, not about any specific site.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#230

Post by jeffmould » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 11:13 PM UTC

talmand wrote: post #226

jeffmould wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"IMO courts should attempt to discover what is true and rule on that" But how do the courts do that when only one party is presenting the evidence? The only way that would work is if you filed a case, a neutral investigator from the court investigated your claim, and the judge ruled on what the investigator found. Otherwise, the court has to base its decision on the evidence provided. If only half the evidence is pro…

I believe somewhere in there the judges have the ability to ask questions and determine things on their own despite what either party wants or desires. It's the whole point in having a judge. If everything could be decided solely on evidence presented without question then people are not required for most cases, just an elaborate evidence decision tree is needed.

Completely agree. However, when only one party is there to answer questions, the judge is left with whether to believe or not believe what the plaintiff is saying.

If that is the case, the reverse would also have to apply. Currently if the plaintiff doesn't show up the case is dismissed. If only one party is required though, now the defendant is left to argue why he/she is not guilty. That doesn't work either.