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Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

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Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#161

On a unrelated note: every time I read an article on USA Today's website it magically disappears and then it takes me a minute to realize that the entire thing was in a modal and clicking in the blank space on the right or left makes the modal go away. What an atrocious user experience.

Blocking Javascript on those new sites that do this fixes the issue and makes the experience much better overall.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#162
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can avoid adverse judgements by just not showing up for court, you incentivize people to not show up. That's not any more fair. There has to be something to lose for not showing up and default is what the legal system has chosen.

What about simply being held in contempt instead of being found guilty?

This is actually an option in some courts if a plaintiff asks. I had a friend in Florida who owed a credit card bill the card company sued him. He missed the court date, his wife was in the hospital, and a warrant was issued by the judge for contempt of court. About a month later he got pulled over for speeding and was arrested on the spot. He had to post a bail that was released when he attended the new court date for the original claim. Ironically, he ended up winning the entire case on a statute of limitations technicality.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#163
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should but it doesn't obviously. Perhaps a video recording of delivery and asking for a signature should be required. Obviously some defendants could just start running away and refuse to sign, thus delaying the lawsuit forever. But also throwing the packet of paper in a mail with a stamp or dropping it on the front porch while yelling "you've been served" is also not quite cutting it. Something in the middle is n…

You do realize that rules around this already exist, right? For example, in california: https://www.serve-now.com/resources/process-serving-laws/cal...

and here in california, my anecdote entails me learning via first class mail that there's about to be a judgement entered against me because I failed to respond to papers I never received, because the plaintiff had apparently served them to an old address of mine (probably intentionally by this shady lawyer filing the small claims suit against me).

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#164
post #57
post #43

Stupid question: if the printer was worth $40 ($75 with shipping) how come the damages are worth $30k ? Even if Costello was right I cannot see how "damages" suffered could exceed those 75 dollars by such a huge margin. In Europe even if he had won the case he would have been awarded $75 in damages, and probably another $50 in legal costs, that's all. Not possible to win $30k out of thin air. But the difference is th…

An adversarial system depends on the involvement of both sides. The defendant here failed to respond to a set of allegations, which made him lose by default.

That sounds incredibly stupid. Can I just start a spamming operation where I "allege" people owe me money and hope they don't respond within 30 days?

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#165
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always done my Craigslist sales that way, sold a number of cellphones at the corner station. Then tried to sell an AppleTV but they wanted to come to my house to make sure it worked. No random Craigslist clown is coming into the house where my wife sleeps, even if I escorted them in with a gun to their head because they could scope it out and come back later. I said I'd record a video of it working and send that…

This is easy with smaller items, but what if you wanted to sell a couch or a treadmill? In the past I thought it would be nice if there was a sort of consignment style store where people could park their Craigslist goods for people to come look at. I think this might go against Craigslists terms of service though... I am very apprehensive to have strangers over to my house, but I also don't know of a better way to se…

That's an interesting thought. I'm not sure how I'd handle that either. Like you said the pickup truck is the default answer. I will say in lieu of a truck, I have a hitch on one of my cars and a small flatbed trailer[0]. :/ Mine has boards on the sides and bottom of it so I can haul rock and dirt. But the thought of wheeling a treadmill around is for some reason kind of hilarious. I'd take it to the gas station though to meet someone and use a video to demonstrate it prior.

Worst case, I would probably have it in the garage and they can look at it there. Probably a risk you have to take to have someone cart off a big old treadmill.

One thing I would definitely do is probably sell it fairly cheap. Just to make sure it moves with the 1st person who is interested. Rather than get a bunch of time online and gazers coming over. People are also less likely to complain about something if they get a deal on it too so it's a win/win. Well other than the cash lost but I'd make that deal.

[0]http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/carry-on-trailer-me...

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#166
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An adversarial system depends on the involvement of both sides. The defendant here failed to respond to a set of allegations, which made him lose by default.

That sounds incredibly stupid. Can I just start a spamming operation where I "allege" people owe me money and hope they don't respond within 30 days?

You'd be declared a vexatious litigant at some point, which puts some blocks on what you can do.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#167
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An adversarial system depends on the involvement of both sides. The defendant here failed to respond to a set of allegations, which made him lose by default.

That sounds incredibly stupid. Can I just start a spamming operation where I "allege" people owe me money and hope they don't respond within 30 days?

As others have noted, this is a thing some scammers do. It's probably tough to turn a profit after paying court fees, service costs, and trying to collect. And if anyone decides to give you a hard time (because you accidentally targeted a lawyer with too much free time, for example) then you could end up in a world of hurt.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wonder if a general liability policy would cover this sort of thing although they would probably just settle. of course they might show up with an army of lawyers.

An umbrella policy for general liability seems like it could be really useful. They typically cover rather large sums of money, in excess of one million dollars, and they aren't terribly expensive. I can imagine someone suing over a misunderstanding because of an X/Y problem. Person A asks a really obtuse programming question, Person B answers it literally, and then Person A goes on to use Person B's answer to build…

Most personal umbrella policies exclude professional, business property, or business liability. At least mine does.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are certain things about Trump that are worth admiring, one character flaw of his is that he does seem to routinely file a lot of petty lawsuits himself.

Which is completely irrelevant to the point that this worthless-to-society A-hole gets let into this country and then completely exploits our legal system while providing nothing of value to anybody. This is exactly the type of scum that needs to be kept out of here.

We've banned this account. Please don't make HN worse by creating accounts to violate the site rules with. Instead, find a civil, substantive way to make your point, or just don't comment.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#170
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i totally laughed out loud when i read that line, how would he have any evidence for further cases? i guess he did though...

Nope, he had no further evidence in the subsequent cases. The problem is that, legally, Doug Costello (the victim who sold the printer) admitted that he owed the money. The system is set up so that if one party doesn't even show up, they are assumed to have agreed with everything the other party says. They HAVE to have some kind of a rule like this or people would just not show up and then be immune lawsuits. The law…

They HAVE to have some kind of a rule like this or people would just not show up and then be immune lawsuits.

Not really. That's the easy way to do it, but the compromise would be that if the defendant doesn't show up, the plaintiff gets to present their evidence and argue their case, and the judge decides based on that.

Under these rules, in this case, if Zavodnik had shown up, and Costello hadn't, Zavodnik would present the zero evidence he had, and the judge should have thrown it out.

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