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Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

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Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#111

Post by walrus01 »

jimrandomh wrote: post #13

Under a sensible legal system, this is a crime. It's called "barratry": filing baseless lawsuits in order to harass or to extract a settlement. In most US jurisdictions, however, it's not legally recognized as a crime, and so it's widespread. From a defendant's point of view, however, it's basically equivalent to getting mugged.

How has this asshat not been declared a 'vexatious litigant' by some court? There's a legal process to deal with people who file an exceptionally larger volume of repeated bullshit lawsuits.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#112

Post by nitrogen »

mikeash wrote: post #58
texuf wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world is an allegedly broken used printer that has since been thrown away worth a years salary? This shit should have never gotten past a filing stage.

How do you decide which cases are worthy of getting past the filing stage without holding a trial for the trial?

Not a lawyer, but isn't that what pre-trial hearings are for?

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#113

Post by ParaLaffer »

jjnoakes wrote: post #70
fiatmoney wrote: post #11

There's no good reason not to be relatively anonymous when buying or selling on craigslist.

When money changes hands, short of using something like cash, how does John Doe remain anonymous? I assume once the matter is in front of a court it is only a matter of time before your identity is readily available. Some form of obfuscating one's name and/or address may raise the bar a bit, but I don't see how this is a solution to the problem of malicious litigation for selling something on craig's list.

Short of using something like cash? I bet most transactions on Craigslist are done through cash (those under $1k or so). Correspond through CL or using relatively anonymous email, meet in public, use cash, and then go on your merry way.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#114

Post by spacemanmatt »

gist wrote: post #99
koolba wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that it seems that the judge made the legally correct determination, and that the majority of judges understand that this type of suit is ridiculous, but they have no tools to stop it. If they had the tools to stop it, and chose to use them based on their determination rather than the "rules" (no matter how nonsensical they be), we'd be throwing a fit about activist judges legislating from the bench.…

Perhaps someone could tell me what happens exactly to a judge that goes against the law in a case like this? If it goes to a higher court and what he has done is overturned what is exactly the practical significance of that? In other words the "my hands are tied" how valid is that in terms of what actually does happen as opposed to what theoretically can happen?

Sometimes judges do go against the law or at least make a legally ambiguous ruling. That is what appeals courts are for.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#115

Post by mcherm »

dlhavema wrote: post #12
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #7

He threw away the printer, so any judge should throw away his case.

i totally laughed out loud when i read that line, how would he have any evidence for further cases? i guess he did though...

Nope, he had no further evidence in the subsequent cases.

The problem is that, legally, Doug Costello (the victim who sold the printer) admitted that he owed the money. The system is set up so that if one party doesn't even show up, they are assumed to have agreed with everything the other party says. They HAVE to have some kind of a rule like this or people would just not show up and then be immune lawsuits. The law DOES say that you must notify them personally so they know about the lawsuit and the court date -- that is normally done by personally handing them the papers, but sometimes it can be done other ways like mailing them. In this case Gersh Zavodnik (the asshole who bought the printer) swears he mailed it (although Doug claims he never received it) so that counts.

The problem here is that the judge believed he didn't have the authority to exercise judgement and rule that this was an abuse of the system. Fortunately, the appeals court DID think the law allowed judges to exercise that judgement, and they did so.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#116

Post by rdtsc »

jjnoakes wrote: post #101
rdtsc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should but it doesn't obviously. Perhaps a video recording of delivery and asking for a signature should be required. Obviously some defendants could just start running away and refuse to sign, thus delaying the lawsuit forever. But also throwing the packet of paper in a mail with a stamp or dropping it on the front porch while yelling "you've been served" is also not quite cutting it. Something in the middle is n…

> It should but it doesn't obviously. I think you've lost track of the conversation in this thread.

How so?

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#117

Post by slapshot »

walrus01 wrote: post #111
jimrandomh wrote: post #13

Under a sensible legal system, this is a crime. It's called "barratry": filing baseless lawsuits in order to harass or to extract a settlement. In most US jurisdictions, however, it's not legally recognized as a crime, and so it's widespread. From a defendant's point of view, however, it's basically equivalent to getting mugged.

How has this asshat not been declared a 'vexatious litigant' by some court? There's a legal process to deal with people who file an exceptionally larger volume of repeated bullshit lawsuits.

He has. I believe this lawsuit predates the official judgment.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2014/10/01/enoughs-enough...

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#118

Post by spacemanmatt »

opticalflow wrote: post #20
chasing wrote: post #9

If I'm reading correctly, the key bit is: ----- Because Costello did not respond to all three requests for admissions within 30 days of receiving them, and did not ask for an extension of time, as required by Indiana trial rules, Costello admitted to the liabilities and damages by default. He also did not appear at a July 2013 hearing, according to court records. Costello said he never received the requests for admis…

That's assuming Zavodnik sent the requests via certified, registered mail. Zavodnik could have easily scribbled the address in unreadable gibberish and slapped a simple 1st class stamp on, in which case they would never have actually been delivered. Costello claims he never received anything.

Usually one needs the delivery receipt associated with a registered letter to prove notification. At least, this was the requirement of notification before I could re-litigate my divorce.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#119

Post by slantyyz »

nimblegorilla wrote: post #42
johngalt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with 'loser pays' is that it can actually encourage frivolous litigation like this. Often there are civil suits where the defendant and plaintiff agree that there are some valid claims, but they disagree on the specifics and amount of the damages. If the plaintiff knows that eventually they will 'win' their fees and costs regardless, they have an incentive to disagree with settlement offers. It looks like…

That isn't how it always works. In some countries when the other party agreed to pay $30 up front then they would be considered the winner. You would pay their legal fees for trying to extort $27,970.

>> You would pay their legal fees for trying to extort $27,970.

Also, the cost of the legal fees may not be the same as what "they" paid. In some countries, I think the judge can determine what the fair price for the legal fees. This way the "loser" of the case isn't burned because the other party chose to hire a $1,000/h lawyer.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#120

Post by ewindisch »

maxxxxx wrote: post #89
MarlonPro wrote: post #8

I remember what a lawyer said in a case that I served as juror, "the US justice system is not perfect but it's the best justice system in the world."

Reflexively saying "The US has the best everything in the world" is what will bring it down eventually. There are plenty of areas the US is way behind.

It's like when I applied for a mortgage back in 2007 and the mortgage people told me incredibly silly things, like, "take a balloon mortgage and get a bigger house, real estate always goes up!". Real estate was considered too big to fail and too certain to go wrong.

I was smart enough to realize how stupid that was. Just not savvy enough to draw the line to seeing that I should short the market...

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