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Why do the poor make poor decisions?

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Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#21

This article tries to shift perception from "poor people make bad decisions because they're intrinsically dumb" to "poor people make bad decisions because poverty makes them dumb." But this is also wrong; the decisions poor people make are, for the most part, sensible decisions given the circumstances they're in. Here's a list from the article: > "The poor borrow more, save less, smoke more, exercise less, drink more…

They smoke/drink more because they're stressed more since they have menial jobs coupled with poor financials. It's not crazy for the 47y/o waitress to feel like he's "stuck", and as a result, indulge in smaller forms of pleasure for temporary escape from the bleak reality of his life. It's for this reason that I believe unfair taxation upon cigarettes is morally corrupt. It's literally pushing them into a deeper hole.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#22

This article tries to shift perception from "poor people make bad decisions because they're intrinsically dumb" to "poor people make bad decisions because poverty makes them dumb." But this is also wrong; the decisions poor people make are, for the most part, sensible decisions given the circumstances they're in. Here's a list from the article: > "The poor borrow more, save less, smoke more, exercise less, drink more…

> Eat less healthfully: because healthy food costs more than unhealthy food. I hate this myth. It glosses over some of the most difficult choices that people in poverty have to make on a regular basis. "Quantity has a quality all it's own." - various sources This is anecdotal, and entirely based on my own experiences as I grew up in poverty (by Canadian standards, which is substantially better than most of the world)…

That sounds like a slightly more nuanced way of saying the same thing? I agree that a lot of the cost differential between healthy and unhealthy eating is caused by shelf-life issues rather than a difference in sticker price, but it works out the same. Eg if eating a diet with fresh foods requires making shopping trips twice as frequently as a diet with frozen foods, then that's the same as if the fuel/time/car-wear costs of the extra trips were added to the cost of the fresh stuff. And if fresh stuff will sometimes spoil, that's like if it sometimes unpredictably cost extra.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#23

This article tries to shift perception from "poor people make bad decisions because they're intrinsically dumb" to "poor people make bad decisions because poverty makes them dumb." But this is also wrong; the decisions poor people make are, for the most part, sensible decisions given the circumstances they're in. Here's a list from the article: > "The poor borrow more, save less, smoke more, exercise less, drink more…

They smoke/drink more because they're stressed more since they have menial jobs coupled with poor financials. It's not crazy for the 47y/o waitress to feel like he's "stuck", and as a result, indulge in smaller forms of pleasure for temporary escape from the bleak reality of his life. It's for this reason that I believe unfair taxation upon cigarettes is morally corrupt. It's literally pushing them into a deeper hole…

It also reduces use (shown in peer-reviewed studies), particularly amongst children, of an addictive cancer-causing product.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#25

This article tries to shift perception from "poor people make bad decisions because they're intrinsically dumb" to "poor people make bad decisions because poverty makes them dumb." But this is also wrong; the decisions poor people make are, for the most part, sensible decisions given the circumstances they're in. Here's a list from the article: > "The poor borrow more, save less, smoke more, exercise less, drink more…

I don't think that's the real answer. Each of your bullet points has some truth to it, but is far from the whole story:

> you only need to borrow if you don't have money. > you can only save if you have money.

Certainly more income makes these easier. But consider the following impossible-to-conduct-in-reality-experiment: Set group A to be a set of 100 randomly selected poor folks who are only qualified to be cashiers or stock shelves. As group B, select a random set of people who currently earn 6-figure salaries and doom them to only ever work the same class of jobs as group A for the rest of their lives. I would not be surprised to find that the formerly wealthy would, in general, borrow less and save more.

> healthy food costs more than unhealthy food.

While an optimal diet does certainly cost more than a calorically-equivalent amount of cheetos, you can shop at walmart - buying only eggs, oatmeal, and bananas - with the probable result that your diet will be both healthier and cheaper than those of most low-income families.

> good attire costs money.

Maybe so, but anyone can get a dress shirt/jacket/slacks at a thrift store for probably less than $30 all told. It won't be high-end clothing, but will at least look professional.

> based on whether they sound like something a poor person would write.

Idk about this one. What would a poor person write? Is this just a matter of whether they have good grammar? Nobody (almost nobody?) is conspiring to keep the poor stuck where they are. I don't think anyone would reject a qualified applicant just because they have no money.

I have no hard data to back this up, but I suspect that most of the chronically poor's lack of success, and their poor decision making has much more to do with the fact that their upbringing has not instilled into them (at least not deeply enough) the idea that their current behavior can affect their future wellbeing.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#26
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They smoke/drink more because they're stressed more since they have menial jobs coupled with poor financials. It's not crazy for the 47y/o waitress to feel like he's "stuck", and as a result, indulge in smaller forms of pleasure for temporary escape from the bleak reality of his life. It's for this reason that I believe unfair taxation upon cigarettes is morally corrupt. It's literally pushing them into a deeper hole…

It also reduces use (shown in peer-reviewed studies), particularly amongst children, of an addictive cancer-causing product.

You pull the child-card to justify discriminated taxation against the poor, but I pull the 47y/o free-willed bummed out waiter card. Shall we start unfairly taxing sugar as well, which is probably a bigger epidemic than tobacco amongst children[1]?

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#27
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They smoke/drink more because they're stressed more since they have menial jobs coupled with poor financials. It's not crazy for the 47y/o waitress to feel like he's "stuck", and as a result, indulge in smaller forms of pleasure for temporary escape from the bleak reality of his life. It's for this reason that I believe unfair taxation upon cigarettes is morally corrupt. It's literally pushing them into a deeper hole…

It also reduces use (shown in peer-reviewed studies), particularly amongst children, of an addictive cancer-causing product.

It reduces use, but the people stubbornly still using tobacco are likelier to be poorer. No peer-reviewed studies are required to demonstrate that it's a regressive tax, any amount of "Think of the children!" posturing notwithstanding.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#28

This article tries to shift perception from "poor people make bad decisions because they're intrinsically dumb" to "poor people make bad decisions because poverty makes them dumb." But this is also wrong; the decisions poor people make are, for the most part, sensible decisions given the circumstances they're in. Here's a list from the article: > "The poor borrow more, save less, smoke more, exercise less, drink more…

I don't think that's the real answer. Each of your bullet points has some truth to it, but is far from the whole story: > you only need to borrow if you don't have money. > you can only save if you have money. Certainly more income makes these easier. But consider the following impossible-to-conduct-in-reality-experiment: Set group A to be a set of 100 randomly selected poor folks who are only qualified to be cashier…

I hate to be "that guy" who takes exception to a tiny part of an admittedly arbitrary thought experiment, but...

If I were a financially responsible professional earning 6 figures and I'm told one day that I'll be forced to stock shelves for measly wages for the rest of my life, you bet your ass I'll hit the bottle.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seams like a lot, but then I think about military spending and at least its less then that. Can't really compare them more than that though.. I'm not trying to start something. Just a thought.

I think the last figure I saw for military spending was 650bn a year. Of course if you cut that by half you'd lose a lot of workers many of those with families (in one respect you could look at the military as a jobs program, what was the last time the US had more than 10% of it's total military personal actually fighting a war).

Imagine if the military was converted to be mostly Corps of Engineers, building schools and roads and cafes, instead of building stuff to blow up.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#30
"Granted, it would take a big program to eradicate poverty in the U.S. According to economist Matt Bruenig’s calculations, it would cost $175 billion."

Is that a correct figure? It's hardly that large and there's no excuse for us not spending it to end poverty if it is.

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