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Why do the poor make poor decisions?

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Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#11
post #7
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second part of the article is pretty interesting too. Apparently giving poor people money would save money in the long run.

"Granted, it would take a big program to eradicate poverty in the U.S. According to economist Matt Bruenig’s calculations, it would cost $175 billion. But poverty is even more expensive. A 2013 study estimated the costs of child poverty at as much as $500 billion a year. Kids who grow up poor end up with two years’ less education, work 450 fewer hours per year, and run three times the risk of bad health than those ra…

It seams like a lot, but then I think about military spending and at least its less then that.

Can't really compare them more than that though.. I'm not trying to start something. Just a thought.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Granted, it would take a big program to eradicate poverty in the U.S. According to economist Matt Bruenig’s calculations, it would cost $175 billion. But poverty is even more expensive. A 2013 study estimated the costs of child poverty at as much as $500 billion a year. Kids who grow up poor end up with two years’ less education, work 450 fewer hours per year, and run three times the risk of bad health than those ra…

It seams like a lot, but then I think about military spending and at least its less then that. Can't really compare them more than that though.. I'm not trying to start something. Just a thought.

I think the last figure I saw for military spending was 650bn a year.

Of course if you cut that by half you'd lose a lot of workers many of those with families (in one respect you could look at the military as a jobs program, what was the last time the US had more than 10% of it's total military personal actually fighting a war).

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#14
The trick is, how do you get anyone who doesn't already think UBI is a good idea to read this line of thinking and agree with it? The 'bootstrapping' mentality is crazy-strong in the US. Too many people say "I did it, so you should be able to, also, and if not, that's your problem," without understanding the underlying reasons behind how they overcame poverty and how others get trapped in it.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#16
"Poor Economics" is a good book about that topic, based on field studies of the authors. I found the investigation of economics at those margins very interesting. Most concepts of small business etc as people who have grown up in the West don't work anymore at those margins, because people have to pay enormous interest rates, shops can't really buy stock etc.

http://www.pooreconomics.com/ and http://www.amazon.com/Poor-Economics-Radical-Rethinking-Pove...

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#17

Being poor is hard. There is no flexibility to be nimble around hardships or mistakes. Its easy to make money if you have money. But try to start a business with no backup funds.or credit line? The first time your vehicle breaks down can put your business in a death cycle.

assuming you can afford a vehicle in the first place.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#18
This article tries to shift perception from "poor people make bad decisions because they're intrinsically dumb" to "poor people make bad decisions because poverty makes them dumb." But this is also wrong; the decisions poor people make are, for the most part, sensible decisions given the circumstances they're in. Here's a list from the article:

> "The poor borrow more, save less, smoke more, exercise less, drink more, and eat less healthfully. Offer money management training and the poor are the last to sign up. When responding to job ads, the poor often write the worst applications and show up at interviews in the least professional attire."

Borrow more: because you only need to borrow if you don't have money.

Save less: because you can only save if you have money.

Showing up at interviews in poor attire: because good attire costs money.

Eat less healthfully: because healthy food costs more than unhealthy food.

Exercise less: because exercising requires the energy that poor diet and the other stresses of poverty sap away.

Writing poor job applications: because applications are judged based on whether they sound like something a poor person would write.

The only genuinely questionable decisions in the list are smoking and drinking, but even these have sensible explanations that don't involve moralizing.

I think the real answer is that things have been labelled "poor decisions" not because they are strategically bad choices for the people who actually make them, but because seeing someone make them provides others with evidence that they're poor, which is stigmatized.

Re: Why do the poor make poor decisions?

#19

This article tries to shift perception from "poor people make bad decisions because they're intrinsically dumb" to "poor people make bad decisions because poverty makes them dumb." But this is also wrong; the decisions poor people make are, for the most part, sensible decisions given the circumstances they're in. Here's a list from the article: > "The poor borrow more, save less, smoke more, exercise less, drink more…

> Eat less healthfully: because healthy food costs more than unhealthy food.

I hate this myth. It glosses over some of the most difficult choices that people in poverty have to make on a regular basis.

"Quantity has a quality all it's own." - various sources

This is anecdotal, and entirely based on my own experiences as I grew up in poverty (by Canadian standards, which is substantially better than most of the world). YMMV when evaluating this if you come from a part of the world that has more extreme cases of poverty.

Eating healthy foods is not inherently more expensive than eating unhealthy foods, but it is a risk management decision.

When you have a small budget and you have to make choices about where you will spend your money, you tend to make choices that insulate against risk. If you have a tight budget then you buy foods that provide the best economic value, not the best nutritional value. That means buying bulk, low cost food so that you can ensure that you have some food left at the end of the week, which might help reduce the amount you have to spend on food next week. This exacerbates the "healthy eating" myth because if you are buying foods that you hope last, you are disinclined to purchase foods that expire, so rather than buying fresh meat, produce, etc, you will instead purchase canned or frozen foods.

Everyone that I grew up with that has elevated themselves above their roots has a similar perspective - it's not that we could buy better food, it just didn't make sense to do so back then.

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