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Salary Negotiation

kalzumeus.com

411–419 of 419 posts

Re: Salary Negotiation

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a young Senior Engineer. I'm low on the tenure side, but I've run successful teams and have deep technical knowledge. I say $220k total comp and that I will count equity but if it's not liquid it won't be worth much. I base that off of what I would get at Google or Facebook (including equity). I've asked around and most companies take it seriously. For junior engineers, I would say $160k. For mid, $180k - $200k.…

160k for junior and 220k for senior? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Do you mean that's not a big enough gap?

Re: Salary Negotiation

#412
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Importantly, we have no interest in trying to sucker someone into working with us if money is their primary motivation. Are you a charity doing good work with orphans? Or are you a business trying to make as much money for the investors as possible? If the latter is true, why wouldn't someone work for you with "money as the primary motivator" ? (This is not Rhetorical, I actually know nothing about your business. B…

Neither. We're a purposeful, for-profit, founder-owned[1] company. Just because we are for-profit doesn't mean profit is our only motivation. It's a false dichotomy to suggest that because you want to make money that must be your only driver. Our view of business is that, much like humans, it can achieve and balance multiple objectives. You want to make money: does that mean you want only that to the exclusion of or…

If you are "for-profit, founder-owned" do you likewise plan to have a cap on how much you, the Founder, can make both in salary and equity/dividends/exit event like your employees?

I think the sentiment you are seeing here (not necessarily taking a side, just playing devils advocate) is that it might seem a little hypocritical to portray a culture where compensation caps (and ones that seem a little below market rate judging by other comments) are expected when there is no limit to the upside you as the founder might see down the line or from a potential exit down the road. Startups are inherently risky for employees, and while Founders certainly shouldered more of the risk, employees are typically rewarded with equity worth the risk, market rate salaries, or some combination. To not compensate employees in such a way seems like it might be taking advantage of a mindset when you the Founder might not be held to the same standards.

Again, if addressing this very issue is part of the opening up of the shares to employees you reference, awesome. This is a very hard problem to tackle and one where it must be damn near impossible to get everyone on board, so I commend you for making the attempt. I'm making lots of assumptions that I hope are simply not the case. Just wanted to clarify and push a bit more on why there seems to be a consistent theme to these comments.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#413

Two ways to answer the "current salary" question - say that your salary expectations depend on the work, the people, the work hours, vacation policy, etc, so it's too early to discuss salary, or - ask what the company pays people in the same position. They won't tell you, but that establishes concretely that it's private information. If they do share the information with you, you can respond with "my expectations are…

Agree with most of this. However I'd say that asking "can you share your range" when appended to your first recommended response can be very powerful.

By making clear that you don't have enough info about the opportunity to properly value it, but recognizing that they need to qualify you based on their range, you're putting the ball firmly in their court to bring more data to the table.

Companies who remain firm about not giving out any info but demanding a salary from you are probably not places you want to work.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any other good sources? As a marketing guy who wears a lot of hats, it is hard to identify consistent titles that represent what I bring to the table, and PayScale didn't seem to be great, and Glassdoor was hit or miss (in large part due to geographic data despite living in the Bay Area where they should have lots of data). There is serious information asymmetry between recruiters/employers vs employees,…

Glassdoor is okay for the UK at least, I use it to check the Software Developer and Solutions Architecture average wages nearby to were I live. The amount of data seems to be getting worse lately though, wonder if certain companies are asking for data to be removed.

Glassdoor's website states "Your trust is our top concern, so companies can't alter or remove reviews." so at least the reviews are genuine but of course, that does not mean some other data (salaries) are not being altered.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#415
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are not paying top of market wages, one or more of the following has to be true: 1. You don't believe top developers are intrinsically 'worth' the amount that FB/Goog/Amzn/ and many other SV companies pay, that it's not a net win for the company to have top talent. 2. You think that you don't need top developers, that really you're just going to be fine recruiting a bunch of B players, and it's some other 'thi…

Note: I'm not the parent poster. > 1. You don't believe top developers are intrinsically 'worth' the amount that FB/Goog/Amzn/ and many other SV companies pay, that it's not a net win for the company to have top talent. You're conflating two things here. I don't think that "top developers are intrinsically 'worth' the amount that [[..]] SV companies pay" (emphasis mine). There is nothing intrinsic about a developer's…

>)I might not think that I have to compete on salary to get top talent. I may have a method of convincing talent to work here based on non-financial incentives.

Great point and I sort of side stepped that. It's not one not talked about enough. I didn't get a sense of that from the poster I replied to, but perhaps there is a compelling story there.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean that's not a big enough gap?

Yes. And also crazy starting salary for a junior.

160k isn't salary, it's total comp. A conservative Google new grad salary is going to be $110k + 35k in GSU/yr + 15K annual bonus (not including signing bonus). Many negotiate an extra 15-20k in GSU/yr.

220k is perhaps on the lower side for senior, maybe closer to 250k is on target. $140k at Google plus 90k in GSU/yr + 20k annual bonus. Could be much higher though.

It is also important to note that years 2,3,4 at Google are going to likely result in stock top ups and comp will skyrocket, but I was largely referring to starting salaries here.

Edit: Also, as mentioned I'm a young Senior. Google isn't likely going to bring me in at level 4.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#418
post #20

Love these, but patio11 needs a better microphone setup, its so echo-y and robotic! Please take this as helpful feedback rather than hurtful criticism.

It's actually less the microphone and more that I recorded this at my coworking space, whose only room for recording is literally a glass box. I'm going to try to find another room to do podcasts in -- the audio engineer flagged it, too, but shipped beats perfect.

If you're stuck with recording in that room, perhaps you could try getting something like an SE Electronics Reflexion Filter? It's like a tiny vocal booth just for your microphone, to block reflected sounds.

http://www.seelectronics.com/reflexion-filter-x/ http://www.seelectronics.com/reflexion-filter-pro/

Not sure of RRP in Japan, but someone is selling the RF-x on eBay US for $80. (I don't have one myself but I've been meaning to get one for years, didn't even know they had a home-studio model until just now.)

Re: Salary Negotiation

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 4 year number is mostly from my own experience. I interviewed recently, and my highest offers (after significant negotiation) were ~316k from a public company 290k~350k from a private company, depending on which valuation you use (409a vs preferred) Again, this is including equity, expected cash bonuses, etc. I have 4~5 years experience and no unique skills. The key is to get at least 2-3 offers around the same t…

Are these numbers before or after pitting competing companies against each other?

After; my first offer was substantially lower.
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