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Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

computerworld.com

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Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#111

Post by bduerst »

vostok wrote: post #33
chrisper wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also many of these consultancy firms just flood the H1B application pool and then just take whoever got accepted. Very unfair.

This is why I strongly believe that H1Bs should be given out to employees that are offered the highest salary. Clearly there is no shortage if you are not willing to pay one of the highest salaries. Yea, this wouldn't be perfect, but it's much better than the significantly more gameable lottery system we have now.

This would make it easier to game, especially for wealthy immigrants who want to buy a visa to get a green card.

Also the H1B visa is for hundreds of different job classifications at different prevailing wages - are you saying there should be an auction for each? How will visas be distributed fairly amongst them?

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#112

Post by bduerst »

siculars wrote: post #38
qxf2 wrote: post #6

I rarely comment but this story makes me happy enough to do so. I'm a former H1-B with an American Masters degree in STEM. I think this conviction will go a long way in making the system fairer. Here is what happened. H1-Bs must be legally employed all (well most of) the time they are in the USA. To get past that rule, these H1-B shops act as employers and then farm out the employees to other companies. Employers nee…

Every STEM grad from a US program should get a greencard/visa stapled to their diploma. Why isn't that happening?

They need to be paid more than the prevailing wage for citizens working the same job in the area they are working.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#113

Post by thaumasiotes »

Kinnard wrote: post #72
thaumasiotes wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your causality is backwards. San Francisco doesn't pay high salaries because the cost of living is high; if that model obtained, San Francisco would immediately turn into a ghost town. The cost of living is high in San Francisco because of the high salaries.

I'm a big proponent of causality without directionality.

meaning?

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#114

Post by bduerst »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #52
moon_of_moon wrote: post #32

If they made the H1-B system fairer for the immigrant workers, so that they their employability wasn't tied to a sponsorship, it would actually be better for American workers. How? Because H1-B employees cannot transfer out easily and live in fear of losing their jobs, because it means packing up and going home. (I can only imagine how much managerial abuse and in the worst case, sexual harassment this situation can…

Not that I'm in favor of the current system, but your argument is flawed. How? Loosening restrictions on sponsorships would invariably result in a net increase in the available labor pool, which would put downward pressure on wages for everyone. This is because the program as-is does not restrict people from changing jobs. It just requires a sponsorship. So, what you are really advocating is that people without jobs…

>...which would put downward pressure on wages for everyone

This is a common misconception about the H1B program.

In order to be approved for sponsorship, the immigrant needs to be paid more than citizens who are for working the same job in the same area. If you're going to propose that "loosening" the restrictions means removing this one rule, then you're only creating your own hypothetical problems.

Ideally as long as the prevailing wage rule is in place and enforcement (like in this article) works, then there shouldn't be a need for artificial restrictions like the lottery - and you won't have wages being driven down.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#115

Post by mahyarm »

bduerst wrote: post #111
vostok wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I strongly believe that H1Bs should be given out to employees that are offered the highest salary. Clearly there is no shortage if you are not willing to pay one of the highest salaries. Yea, this wouldn't be perfect, but it's much better than the significantly more gameable lottery system we have now.

This would make it easier to game, especially for wealthy immigrants who want to buy a visa to get a green card. Also the H1B visa is for hundreds of different job classifications at different prevailing wages - are you saying there should be an auction for each? How will visas be distributed fairly amongst them?

Those people are a small portion of H1B visas, if at all, and all it means that instead of a %50 to %100 chance that they get it 'this year' doing it, it's a %100 chance. They also have other options like an L1 visa which is another %100 chance in a year and then can get a green card at the highest priority level as an international executive afterwards. Or they can open a mcdonalds franchise somewhere in a bad part of america and get a E visa for a $500k investment. The wealthy have many options to immigrate. And if they are wealthy they can do this with real corporations too since wealthy people have wealthy friends.

Gamebility by the 'wealthy' would be the least of their worries in this case. Most H1-B abuse are body shops such as infosys. 'Price' auctions would be a good improvement for employees, although it would concentrate the visas into places like SF & NYC even further.

On top of that, a US passport isn't attractive to the already wealthy. The US has high income tax rates relative to many other places and you can never escape it by moving out, unlike all other citizenships in the world. The already wealthy would move to london, monaco, switzerland or maybe dubai if their goal was wealth preservation.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#116

Post by mahyarm »

CPLX wrote: post #82
vostok wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I strongly believe that H1Bs should be given out to employees that are offered the highest salary. Clearly there is no shortage if you are not willing to pay one of the highest salaries. Yea, this wouldn't be perfect, but it's much better than the significantly more gameable lottery system we have now.

You're aware that not every H1B is a developer right? Your proposal would change the whole basis of the program in a way that doesn't seem particularly thought out. What about people who are botanists, or harpsichord teachers?

Universities already have an unlimited quota for H1Bs, so at least the teachers can get it.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#117

Post by selectron »

itsnotlupus wrote: post #18
selectron wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The don't replace anyone statement doesn't make any sense. Instead of training foreign workers we could be training American workers for these jobs.

Do you mean to train them against their will?

There are always people willing to do the job at the right price and work conditions. Companies would rather pay lower salaries with worse working conditions than pay US workers the wages needed to match the demand. It is basic supply and demand - the more supply of something the less demand it has. The country as a whole may benefit from immigration but the US workers who have to compete with foreign workers definitely do not.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#118

Post by selectron »

verst wrote: post #20
selectron wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The don't replace anyone statement doesn't make any sense. Instead of training foreign workers we could be training American workers for these jobs.

Are you suggesting that companies should not be able to hire the most qualified individuals who went through the same system as everybody else? [EDIT (rephrasing): There is no particular training provided. The international students received the same education as US students at US institutions.] International students generally have to pay for everything out of pocket (they are not eligible for any public/tax-payer b…

Yes, I am in favor of companies that are based in the US and take advantage of US infrastructure and tax-payer funding (indirectly and directly) should be hiring US citizens as workers. Anyway you didn't address the point - it is completely wrong to say that these foreign workers are not competing with US workers for the jobs they take. This is just basic supply and demand. Foreign workers are usually willing to take lower salaries and work longer hours than US citizens, which is why companies love to hire them.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#119

Post by davidw »

vostok wrote: post #33
chrisper wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also many of these consultancy firms just flood the H1B application pool and then just take whoever got accepted. Very unfair.

This is why I strongly believe that H1Bs should be given out to employees that are offered the highest salary. Clearly there is no shortage if you are not willing to pay one of the highest salaries. Yea, this wouldn't be perfect, but it's much better than the significantly more gameable lottery system we have now.

This idea is still predicated on the 'magic number' that the government has more or less randomly picked to be the number of H1B visas in a year. This number is, of course, far smaller than the number of family and other types of visas.

http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number...

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#120

Post by isoos »

bduerst wrote: post #111
vostok wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I strongly believe that H1Bs should be given out to employees that are offered the highest salary. Clearly there is no shortage if you are not willing to pay one of the highest salaries. Yea, this wouldn't be perfect, but it's much better than the significantly more gameable lottery system we have now.

This would make it easier to game, especially for wealthy immigrants who want to buy a visa to get a green card. Also the H1B visa is for hundreds of different job classifications at different prevailing wages - are you saying there should be an auction for each? How will visas be distributed fairly amongst them?

Wealthy immigrants can obtain investor visa easier outside of the H1B pool (EB-5).

There is no reason why H1B should be distributed fairly, because the US has a green card lottery that is diversified across various jobs and countries anyway.

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