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Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

computerworld.com

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Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#71

Post by jmspring »

MrTonyD wrote: post #10

I had a friend at HP - who worked in a group arranging for "tourists" to staff HP projects. It was a "secret" group offsite from HQ and they got lists of major development projects. Then they worked with recruiters worldwide to find staff. They would arrange cars at the airport, long term hotels, and rotated teams in and out of the country to keep the project going. They did this for years and years. We need some rea…

I think if H1-B, and skilled visas in general, was truly about skill level and best fit, fine. However, every situation (like Disney) where visas are used to bring in labor to be trained to replace technical workers who may not necessarily be the HN crowd, but are a vital part of business, should be disallowed. If a company wants to offshore, fine, but it shouldn't use the Visa system to have workers being replaced training their replacements.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#72

Post by Kinnard »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #68
megablast wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. San Fran has higher salaries across the board, to go with the higher cost of living. It doesn't mean other areas don't need devs.

Your causality is backwards. San Francisco doesn't pay high salaries because the cost of living is high; if that model obtained, San Francisco would immediately turn into a ghost town. The cost of living is high in San Francisco because of the high salaries.

I'm a big proponent of causality without directionality.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#73

Post by enraged_camel »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #52
moon_of_moon wrote: post #32

If they made the H1-B system fairer for the immigrant workers, so that they their employability wasn't tied to a sponsorship, it would actually be better for American workers. How? Because H1-B employees cannot transfer out easily and live in fear of losing their jobs, because it means packing up and going home. (I can only imagine how much managerial abuse and in the worst case, sexual harassment this situation can…

Not that I'm in favor of the current system, but your argument is flawed. How? Loosening restrictions on sponsorships would invariably result in a net increase in the available labor pool, which would put downward pressure on wages for everyone. This is because the program as-is does not restrict people from changing jobs. It just requires a sponsorship. So, what you are really advocating is that people without jobs…

>>This is because the program as-is does not restrict people from changing jobs. It just requires a sponsorship.

It doesn't technically restrict them, but the window for changing jobs is so short that the employees are practically anchored to the employer.

In addition to the short window, changing jobs during H1B also resets the immigrant's place in the green card queue, which can cost them years and years of progress they have made towards permanent residency and citizenship.

You claim that if H1B workers could stay in the country without jobs, it would put downward pressure on wages. I disagree. The current system already places downward pressure: since H1B workers are anchored to their sponsor employer, they have close to zero leverage in salary negotiations. If they could change jobs freely and at their own leisure (during the course of their visa) then they could shop around and go to the highest paying employer.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#74

Post by PhasmaFelis »

natmaster wrote: post #46
steego wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A much better solution would to remove any barriers an H1B worker has to shop for a better job. If we want to live an egalitarian society, it's in our collective interest for immigrants to earn as much as the rest of us. That only happens when we dismantle systems that provide an incentive to exploit immigrants.

Why is America the only place to live in the world? Are you saying the rest of the world is terrible?

What on earth are you talking about? Did you reply to the wrong comment?

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#75

Post by epicureanideal »

vostok wrote: post #69
megablast wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. San Fran has higher salaries across the board, to go with the higher cost of living. It doesn't mean other areas don't need devs.

They can still hire devs. They just need to pay more. Total comp is not adjusted for cost of living for doctors, salesmen, traders, bankers, attorneys, and managers. Why do you expect it to be adjusted for software developers? This is less than intuitive for me.

It's a way of justifying keeping salaries as low as possible for engineers, but somehow managing to cough up more money in some locations. An equally good engineer in Chicago should be worth the same amount as an engineer in SF, but they're paid less... simply because the employer has more negotiating power in both cases. In both cases, the employer pays enough to give the engineer a reasonably good living for the local cost of living, because that's what's needed to incentivize them to work... a natural minimum incentive. If engineers demanded more, they'd get more.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#76

Post by eva1984 »

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #59
vostok wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I strongly believe that H1Bs should be given out to employees that are offered the highest salary. Clearly there is no shortage if you are not willing to pay one of the highest salaries. Yea, this wouldn't be perfect, but it's much better than the significantly more gameable lottery system we have now.

Having a bidding system for H1Bs would quickly resolve all these issues.

That will make company like MS/Google/FB/AMAZN, invincible. Startups are going to be starved. They will not have that much leverage to recruit desired talents.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#77

Post by a_small_island »

So what is actually being paid on these H1B as salary? Using something like h1bdata.info, you can look into any company's filings. For example, the most recent Uber h1b filing[0] has a rate of pay from 110-140k but only a prevailing wage of 68k. Any insight as to what these employees are getting for base salaries?

>"F. Rate of Pay

1. Wage Rate (Required) From: $ 115,000.00 To: $ 140,000.00"

>"9. Prevailing wage $ 67,683.00 "

[0]http://h1bdata.info/lca.php?id=4536234&em=UBER%20TECHNOLOGIE...

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#78

Post by eva1984 »

verst wrote: post #58
bogomipz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation. You seem to have a real sense…

>> Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Absurd? Perhaps. However, it is reality and happening in the University of California system. [1] The tuition for CA residents (regardless how they choose to financ…

Just curious, why UC system has such a budget crisis? What leads to this?

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#79

Post by dang »

throwaway_45 wrote: post #36

I hate Indians who try to hate on other people trying to make it. Why the heck do you deserve to be in America? These are the rules you learn to play it.

This breaks HN's civility rule badly. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do it again.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11842661 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#80

Post by bogomipz »

morgante wrote: post #56
bogomipz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation. You seem to have a real sense…

> Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? They absolutely do. Consider that at many schools (particularly UCs) in-state tuition is not enough to cover costs. International students paying high tuition are absolutely helping to subsidize such situations. Even at top private universities, international students can be a major subsidy. Domestic students typically have their…

You are just making stuff up! Please show me a citation that supports the claim that US students get their education on the backs of foreigners.

That UC is public university of the state of California, that differential of which you speak is funded by tax payers in California that is why it is cheaper for Californians to attend. Get it right. Here is an abridged history.

http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-...

And by the same token the the University is more expensive for out of state students.

Why on earth should the US be concerned that residents of other countries have their "full financial need met"?

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