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Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

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Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#51
As long as the DHS doesn't find a way to shut all these shops and reform the immigration rules, nothing will ever change.Part of the problem exists with the thousands of universities which gives admits to everyone who applies without even a GRE. These universities are pumping the market with resources these H1B shops rely on. The problem with consulting companies which get thousands of visas which actually replaces some American jobs is a whole different story.

All of this takes a comprehensive immigration reforms which encourages merit based visa assignment than a ridiculous lottery, guess this will takes years to happen, sadly.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#52

If they made the H1-B system fairer for the immigrant workers, so that they their employability wasn't tied to a sponsorship, it would actually be better for American workers. How? Because H1-B employees cannot transfer out easily and live in fear of losing their jobs, because it means packing up and going home. (I can only imagine how much managerial abuse and in the worst case, sexual harassment this situation can…

Not that I'm in favor of the current system, but your argument is flawed.

How?

Loosening restrictions on sponsorships would invariably result in a net increase in the available labor pool, which would put downward pressure on wages for everyone. This is because the program as-is does not restrict people from changing jobs. It just requires a sponsorship. So, what you are really advocating is that people without jobs can remain in-country "off-visa". This is not the purpose of the H1-B program.

So, if you were to allow this, yet still keep the notion of H1-B sponsorship alive, then there would be the source of the net increase of available workers.

Now, you could make arguments about lowering the expense and friction involved for sponsoring companies, which would then increase the appeal of H1-B visa holders and make finding new sponsors easier. That would probably go further in the direction of increased salaries you mentioned, so long as you kept the visa-holder cap constant. But, of course, part of the reason for this cost/friction is to provide companies with incentives to source labor locally before looking to non-U.S. labor markets.

It's a complex problem with no easy solutions.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#53
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that companies should not be able to hire the most qualified individuals who went through the same system as everybody else? [EDIT (rephrasing): There is no particular training provided. The international students received the same education as US students at US institutions.] International students generally have to pay for everything out of pocket (they are not eligible for any public/tax-payer b…

Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation. You seem to have a real sense…

This essentially ignores the condition of the US (and in particular the Bay area) as the tech capital of the world. The US is not bereft of talent, but the US alone does not produce enough tech talent to sustain its position in the world. In some cases, these American companies "that the H1B folks want to work" were founded by non-Americans or even better, were founded out of the US but moved there as a condition in an investment round.

You can be the tech center of the world. You can be an isolationist. You can't be both.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#54
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I strongly believe that H1Bs should be given out to employees that are offered the highest salary. Clearly there is no shortage if you are not willing to pay one of the highest salaries. Yea, this wouldn't be perfect, but it's much better than the significantly more gameable lottery system we have now.

In addition, I hope that we can somehow figure out a way to give visas to STEM graduate degree earners over ones employed by such shops. That segment seems significantly underserved by the current system and it's resulting in a reverse brain drain away from the country even though we are investing in their education.

I don't like the idea of further endorsing and supporting credentialism.

If you can get a high salary, then you're in demand and we should keep you. If you have a STEM degree but can't even get a good job, then I don't see any reason to grant a visa.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#55
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess what the user meant is to make it easy for people on H1B to switch jobs which currently isn't. This makes so many employees to be at the jobs though low paying so as to keep their status in US. Edit: for grammar!

You can switch jobs on an H1-b visa. The window is too short yes but plenty of people with skills do it in SV.

You can, but it isn't for people with weak stomachs or dependents. Who thinks that that is intentional believes in conspiracies.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#56
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that companies should not be able to hire the most qualified individuals who went through the same system as everybody else? [EDIT (rephrasing): There is no particular training provided. The international students received the same education as US students at US institutions.] International students generally have to pay for everything out of pocket (they are not eligible for any public/tax-payer b…

Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation. You seem to have a real sense…

> Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens?

They absolutely do. Consider that at many schools (particularly UCs) in-state tuition is not enough to cover costs. International students paying high tuition are absolutely helping to subsidize such situations.

Even at top private universities, international students can be a major subsidy. Domestic students typically have their full financial need met, but international students don't. International students thus subsidize the aid for domestic students.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#57

I hate Indians who try to hate on other people trying to make it. Why the heck do you deserve to be in America? These are the rules you learn to play it.

Calm down mr Trump, we do not hate any group. And we are not trying to steal your jobs

The op is being Mr trump. He is like screw those other Indians from coming in. I think everyone should have a shot.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#58
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that companies should not be able to hire the most qualified individuals who went through the same system as everybody else? [EDIT (rephrasing): There is no particular training provided. The international students received the same education as US students at US institutions.] International students generally have to pay for everything out of pocket (they are not eligible for any public/tax-payer b…

Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation. You seem to have a real sense…

>> Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you.

Absurd? Perhaps. However, it is reality and happening in the University of California system. [1] The tuition for CA residents (regardless how they choose to finance this -- which is what you are referring to) is currently only maintained by the large number of out of state (and international) admissions. The problem has gotten so bad that a bill was passed in the state legislature to limit the out of state student enrollment. [2]

>> Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation.

A privilege that is only accessible to the most privileged foreigners (because they are wealthy in their home countries) or most talented (who receive financial assistance from private organizations, or in some cases their home country).

>> You seem to have a real sense of entitlement that because you went to school in the US the US owes you a job. Wow.

I certainly did not make the case that any graduate of a US university is entitled to any job. I agree with you.

Taking the perspective of a business, how would you incentive your business not to hire the best available candidates who are already in the country (regardless of whether or not they are foreign-born)?

>> This idea that the most talented people can only be found from outside the US needs to just die. If the US were so bereft of talent none of these companies that these H1B visa folks want to work for would exist. Ditto for the US universities they attend.

This is not what I said. I was referring to US-born and foreign-born students attending the same universities for the same duration. I did not advocate for bringing people into the country.

Note that those international students having attended US institutions of higher education can already start working for any employer under the post graduation Optional Practical Training (OPT) for a few years.

>> This idea of relocating people to London for year is just gaming the system.

Agreed. I am not advocating for this. Just describing that this is happening.

[1]: http://www.mercurynews.com/education/ci_29954758/california-...

[2]: http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert...

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#59
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also many of these consultancy firms just flood the H1B application pool and then just take whoever got accepted. Very unfair.

This is why I strongly believe that H1Bs should be given out to employees that are offered the highest salary. Clearly there is no shortage if you are not willing to pay one of the highest salaries. Yea, this wouldn't be perfect, but it's much better than the significantly more gameable lottery system we have now.

Having a bidding system for H1Bs would quickly resolve all these issues.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#60
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that companies should not be able to hire the most qualified individuals who went through the same system as everybody else? [EDIT (rephrasing): There is no particular training provided. The international students received the same education as US students at US institutions.] International students generally have to pay for everything out of pocket (they are not eligible for any public/tax-payer b…

Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation. You seem to have a real sense…

>Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you.

The GP is correct, domestic students rarely, if ever, pay the true cost of attendance at colleges and universities (hereafter, called 'schools') [1]. The are taxpayer subsidies such as tax breaks (both the publics and privates benefit) to the schools from local and state governments, as well as annual appropriations for operating costs of public schools. This is especially evident in areas where the cost of attendance is so low to in-state residents, such as the California State school system.

Private schools also subsidise students through merit scholarships, which lower the cost of attendance for foreign and domestic alike, to the tune of anywhere between a few hundred dollars and a free ride.

[1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/06/12/study-us-high...

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