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Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment

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Re: Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment

#21
post #19
post #18

The notes left on his hotel bed daily are the strangest part. Implying Jake is a Fed, or his supporters were actively compromising his physical security?

Yeah I'm not sure whether to believe that part. If I found notes on my pillow, I'd nope the fuck out of there and either go back to the conference or the police station. In any case, that story would not have ended where it does now.

Why do you think the police would do anything?

We know from the victims of stalkers that the police don't see it as important; they don't care; or if they do care there's not much they can do.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/apr/16/lily-allen-sta...

Seven years!

Re: Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment

#22
post #18

The notes left on his hotel bed daily are the strangest part. Implying Jake is a Fed, or his supporters were actively compromising his physical security?

I mean, you don't exactly have to be a government agent to sneak into a hotel room.

"Hey, I think I lost my keycard, can you run me another one? The name's Farr...room 221."

Re: Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment

#24
post #14

Meredith and Andrea were, according to too many people yesterday: untrustworthy and biased. Many comments here urged everyone to suspend judgement, not rush to conclusions and not take allegations overly seriously. (Not always a bad idea, but apparently much less important today.) Now that Nick has written his story however, it goes back on the front page of HN and the comments here basically support it as totally cr…

As a counter anecdote: I don't know those people, I "know" Nick and trust him so his story is much more credible than "random twitter accounts spouting filth" to me. Hell, the puellavulnerata account rings too many avoidavoid-bells learned in 25 years of internet to me. I do not believe in any way that the gender alone can be deemed responsible for your observation. What makes you even think that the same people who…

Andrea is a well known Tor developer with a solid track record. If you don't know of her and discount what she says because of "25 years" of whatever kind of bullshit bells ring in your mind... that says a lot more about you than it does about her.

Re: Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment

#25
post #12

> One person following this pattern submitted an LT proposal alleging that Jake was a US Intelligence Operative. I LOLed. After a few rounds of encrypted e-mail pestering and a few texts, they insisted on being put on the schedule. I did so to appease, as was my strategy at the time, with every intention of pulling them off after they inevitably failed to follow directions. You can go look at the wiki histories for a…

I guess I didn't make this clear enough in the post, but I had no intention of letting the talk go forward unless the presenter could bring up some really solid evidence of some sort. Slides, some kind of visual element or documentation were required to earn/keep your LT slot and, for understandable reasons, some people wait until the last minute to submit the final draft of those.

To be crass, I threw this person on the schedule and gave them a deadline with every intention of removing them the next day to shut them up so I could go to sleep. The LT schedules change up to and during the event itself and I've rejected a lot of talks once it was clear that the slides or revisions contained inappropriate material.

The goal of the event is to give everyone a chance to take the stage, the point is to not curate beyond clustering similar topics together. People sing songs, do dances and any number of crazy little things and sometimes will blow you away with an amazing idea.

That being said, I started training my potential replacements for the LTs at the 30c3 for the reasons you stated, among others.

I believe today, the talks are assembled by a team of three people with each person taking the helm on a particular day.

Re: Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment

#26
post #19
post #18

The notes left on his hotel bed daily are the strangest part. Implying Jake is a Fed, or his supporters were actively compromising his physical security?

Yeah I'm not sure whether to believe that part. If I found notes on my pillow, I'd nope the fuck out of there and either go back to the conference or the police station. In any case, that story would not have ended where it does now.

I totally understand your skepticism there. Yes, I was totally an idiot for not keeping the notes, not going to the police, etc. etc.

If I can offer anything, by the time it got to that point, I had already been told to "stop making drama" about the whole thing and somehow just pacify Jake by many people I trusted.

So I bring them a note! I bring them to my hotel room! Let's walk through the scenario in my head: What's to make them believe me now because I have some anonymous piece of paper. Who's to say I didn't make the thing up myself to try to get back at Jake? Why would someone believe me just because there's a shred of something.

My whole approach up until I couldn't take it anymore was to just ignore, to let it slide, to not think about it and move on. THIS IS WHAT HARASSMENT VICTIMS DO and yes, I should have recognized it at the time.

Re: Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment

#27
post #13

Meredith and Andrea were, according to too many people yesterday: untrustworthy and biased. Many comments here urged everyone to suspend judgement, not rush to conclusions and not take allegations overly seriously. (Not always a bad idea, but apparently much less important today.) Now that Nick has written his story however, it goes back on the front page of HN and the comments here basically support it as totally cr…

I was equally slow to fully believe Nick until he posted details (which he did). In general I'll evaluate someone's own claims on their merit (including personal credibility), but am a lot less likely to base actions on third party hearsay. If any of the rape accusers posts a similarly detailed account with verifiable facts (easier under his or her own name, but still can be anonymous) those can be taken seriously to…

Hey Ryan,

Let me just start by saying I think you're a totally reasonable person and I respect your thoughts,[1] so let's talk some more about why we've come down seeing things a bit differently here.

So first off, I think that I've seen a lot more consistency from you than from other parts of the Internet. And that's cool, consistency is worth doing and I also agree skepticism is good. It's a value I hold. It's a value I know Meredith holds too.

What is also true though, and I think anyone who examines this closely will also come to the conclusion that claims women make get a much higher degree of skepticism, accusations of bias and face a much higher bar before being accepted or believed.

So even when you just compare responses to tweets people made (Nick tweeted yesterday too) or longer form stories that people wrote (that one site has collected a bunch now) you'll see the stark difference in how people respond to things posted by women vs. things posted by men. It contributes a lot to why being on the Internet as a woman is a much more problematic thing and why women don't get taken seriously.

It's a real thing, and it'd be best if we were able to learn more from it.

Please feel free to spend some more time to examine various threads and comments in various places. I'm sure you'll come to your own conclusions and I'll be interested to hear what you think.

[1] You may not know me, but we've got some mutual friends and I've generally appreciated your commentary before being pretty on the level!

Re: Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment

#28
post #19
post #18

The notes left on his hotel bed daily are the strangest part. Implying Jake is a Fed, or his supporters were actively compromising his physical security?

Yeah I'm not sure whether to believe that part. If I found notes on my pillow, I'd nope the fuck out of there and either go back to the conference or the police station. In any case, that story would not have ended where it does now.

Maybe to offer another insight that is not obvious: When you reach a certain point in an organization, what you do and how it impacts the thing you work so hard for becomes very obvious. Yeah, you sacrifice your personal safety for it as much as that sounds awful in retrospect.

What would I have to gain getting the police or others involved in a creepy note left in my room? The fact is, they proved they could gain entry whenever they wanted and no amount of police protection would do anything about that.

And then what...start rumors about creepy notes? Have people tell me I made the whole thing up? Get told by the Police there would be nothing they could do, or worse, invite them in to a world where they're actively detested?

What would all that do to the conference? It would be another circus taking away attention away from people who rightly deserved it for the great work that they're doing. Just like this whole thing is a circus.

The best thing that could have happened did, some friends of mine were scheduled to crash with me--one of whom was sick the entire time. After that, the notes stopped.

Re: Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment

#29

I get the impression that almost everyone in this space overreacts and throws dirt at each other. Here is how others of the Tor project reacted in a similar situation: https://pando.com/2014/11/14/tor-smear/

This is why it took me so long to come out with this story. The last thing I want to do is put myself out there only to be dismissed as part of a larger smear campaign (as I was at the time.)

Further: This is a direct description of what I have come to know as Jake's M.O. Not an isolated incident. This has to do with one person's behavior, it has nothing to do with the projects that person was involved with.

Maybe what Jake did to me wasn't all that bad. Maybe I deserved it. Fine, call me whatever form of coward or weakling you want but in the end, this was my hobby and I found other things to do with my life where I didn't have to put up with this level of stress.

Re: Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment

#30
post #18

The notes left on his hotel bed daily are the strangest part. Implying Jake is a Fed, or his supporters were actively compromising his physical security?

I mean, you don't exactly have to be a government agent to sneak into a hotel room. "Hey, I think I lost my keycard, can you run me another one? The name's Farr...room 221."

And it's all on video camera (pretty much all hotel lobbies have them), whoever made a copy of a key remember it, etc. Many hotel corridors have cameras too. It's not as easy as you think to get copy of the key and enter the room without leaving evidences.
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