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Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

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321–330 of 600 posts

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> waste money on renting How is renting wasting money? Are you not living in the unit? You're gaining 100% benefit by paying rent and receiving a roof over your head. You must mean a waste by losing out on building equity? That's a crap shoot in itself. A hot housing market and equity can go into the toilet at anytime due to very irrational market conditions. Look at the housing markets of Las Vegas or Miami for exam…

In European cities like London, Paris or Zurich, the supply of housing is so constrained that, barring something catastrophic like a war or a global financial crisis, prices will never drop that much for that long. In fact, it's quite a big economic problem — there's little reason for the majority of people to put their savings into anything other than property, because it tends to be so reliable. And somewhere like…

In a great many places, the rental rates are set to be about the same as if somebody just purchased the property and were about to pay mortgage payments.

In the short term, the renter makes out, because the owner has to assume taxes and maintenance, but over the long term, the existing mortgage doesn't increase while rent does and the property owner starts to cover those costs and then starts to make money off of the property. Once the mortgage is paid off, the rental money is pure profit.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#322
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As already mentioned, you're ignoring a fact that even by working there for 10 years, it's close to impossible to buy a part of land and build a house anywhere near a city. Land and house prices are too high to stay there for live. It's only profitable to live there, make savings and buy 2-3 houses in Uk/Germany for it. Like two of my co-workers did.

I've never understood why people believe/feel that buying land and/or a house is the pinnacle of... something. Sure, it gives the person a feeling of control and stability. But rooting oneself in one labor market (vs. being mobile) decreases one's employment options and therefore their salary. It's also very risky, as it's the equivalent of putting one's eggs in one basket and leaves their financial wellbeing in the…

Because if you look over a 20-30 year period of home ownership you build equity in your home and get a pretty significant tax benefit as well (mortgage interest deduction).

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#323
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toronto was/is like this too. It's a pretty big city similar to Chicago. All of the houses are >$1 million now in Toronto proper. Now the only thing being built are hundreds of cookie cutter condos right in the downtown core. So many were built in recent years that the price of condos actually went down for the first time in forever while house prices continued to rise.

You can get a decent house in a nice neighborhood on the north side of Chicago for around 200k.

As a person who's currently dealing with the market in Chicago I can say your data is out of date. Bungalows in virtually any decent north side neighborhood are more like 250-300k. The only exception is Belmont-Cragin which is so inaccessible it might as well be a suburb.

That being said, yeah, Chicago real-estate is still affordable for the middle class. I think Toronto is in a bubble (or somehow experiencing severely constricted supply) simply looking at the price of housing versus salaries in the region.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#324
post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

This is so compelling! I'd like to experience such a place. However being from some part of this planet I googled a few keywords and came across this: https://www.vice.com/read/guide-to-european-racist-leagues The website features a lot in HN so but I don't know about the quality of their journalism. Anyway, you never know till you try...

This seems to be a joke article... I quote:

Germany:

The Evidence At the time of going to press, a comprehensive reading of the past hundred years of German history showed no documented incidents of any racial bias.

Racism Rating 0/5

ehh???

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's so funny that you're implying I'm racist, but I guess that's what happens when they are firmly rooted in their biased convictions I'll just add that as a note, Canadians are the worse case of "I'm not racist, but" that I've ever seen. Canadian immigration process is severely biased towards things like education level, criminal background and language knowledge. So unfair, right?!

I'm not implying your racist. I suspect you aren't. I'm just pointing out that you don't seem to have a rational reason not to be - your reasoning supports racism just as well as nationalism. This simply means your position is unreasoned - merely a collection of arbitrary views held together by emotion, tribalism, mood affiliation and similar things. That's all. If you dispute this diagnosis, can you state a principl…

You're overthinking this.

You can argue that the notion of country or state should not exist but that means of organization will happen regardless, with different levels of openness, because people is people and end up in groups.

In the end, modern countries that were created because people have affinity with each other have lasted more than in the cases they haven't.

Of course it's not rational, because people. And people in one groups will usually favour those in the same group (starting with the family)

And in the IT world you'll probably find a lot of Indians that were selected in favour of native US blacks, because of what they know (and how much they charge to employ that knowledge, of course)

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#326
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very simple actually. Consider, for brevity, a mortgage where the monthly or yearly payment, including taxes, is equal to the rent you would be paying for the same place. Then live in the place and go about your life for several years, until the mortgage is paid for. Option 1, you took the mortgage. Now you own a house and you are not due any more payments. You can keep living there and use the excess income for…

The maths rarely work out the way you outlined: If the mortgage is equal to the rent, then potential landlords are leaving money on the table. That rarely happens for long. Typically most landlords in competitive markets will leverage and take up interest-only mortgages to the extent were rent only barely covers interest and maintenance, and make most of their money on capital gains. For most people a repayment mortg…

The algorithm to make money as a landlord is pretty simple.

1) mortgage the property you wish to rent out

2) rent it out

3) wait until rents increase and earn profit (mortgages do not increase while rental rates do)

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#327
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> waste money on renting How is renting wasting money? Are you not living in the unit? You're gaining 100% benefit by paying rent and receiving a roof over your head. You must mean a waste by losing out on building equity? That's a crap shoot in itself. A hot housing market and equity can go into the toilet at anytime due to very irrational market conditions. Look at the housing markets of Las Vegas or Miami for exam…

Do not forget maintenance, insurance & taxes that go along with that monthly nut. People used to always tell me I was throwing my money away on rent(until the "Great Recovery"), but I've never had to pony up thousands of $$$ for a new a/c unit or replacement appliances. As always, YMMV.

Why do you think your rent isn't simply amortizing those costs? The landlord isn't a utility/maintenance charity.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a decent house in a nice neighborhood on the north side of Chicago for around 200k.

As a person who's currently dealing with the market in Chicago I can say your data is out of date. Bungalows in virtually any decent north side neighborhood are more like 250-300k. The only exception is Belmont-Cragin which is so inaccessible it might as well be a suburb. That being said, yeah, Chicago real-estate is still affordable for the middle class. I think Toronto is in a bubble (or somehow experiencing severe…

My sister just last year bought a house in Jefferson Park for around that, and her neighbor's house just went up for less than 200. I'm sure it's not the best house in the world, but it's a nice neighborhood walking distance from a blue line station.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of Chicago, the third-largest city in the US, is single-family houses with yards. For that matter, when I lived in San Francisco back in 99-2001, I had a yard.

The standard Chicago city lot is only about 25' wide though. The houses are very close together, with a tiny front yard and a slightly large back yard but only a narrow strip on either side.

That's a big part of what makes them not suburban. I like the narrow lots. Why would I need more than the typical Chicago lot?

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who's currently dealing with the market in Chicago I can say your data is out of date. Bungalows in virtually any decent north side neighborhood are more like 250-300k. The only exception is Belmont-Cragin which is so inaccessible it might as well be a suburb. That being said, yeah, Chicago real-estate is still affordable for the middle class. I think Toronto is in a bubble (or somehow experiencing severe…

My sister just last year bought a house in Jefferson Park for around that, and her neighbor's house just went up for less than 200. I'm sure it's not the best house in the world, but it's a nice neighborhood walking distance from a blue line station.

I don't know about the particulars of their places. The only properties I've seen in Jeff Park for that cheap have been Bank Owned, in need of serious rehab, or have some other mitigating issue like being on a short lot.
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